I just started this series (i never had an n64 growing up) after reading on oot and decided to play it, and I realized how this is the greatest series ever made.
I am only on majoras mask (deku palace), and all my friends try to tell me link is dead, but then how did everyone elae die and go to termina too? Like the witches, and the guards kid with the keaton mask i assume, and guru guru?
Fill me in on all the lore and how it all fits together with as little spoilers as possible. And if link did die, how did he meet hms, because this whole timeline is way before oot, just as i meet zelda as a kid right?
I am not smart. Pic related, the timeline.
Besides, link should be a stalfos anyway if that was the case and that is the stalfps in tp right? Then how did all this even start. My whole mind is full of questions and thoughts aboutthis but its so hard to type out esppecially on phone.
That means link isnt dead then after all? How did i even get to termina in the first place, and how did everyone else get there too? Does that mean i really did turn into stalfos and that means i went mad and imagined it all? I just thought of that
So i didnt go mad or anything and fell into a dimensional rift and then went into an alternate universe? So theres 2 of me? Or does that mean im playing as the alternate link in the first place.
Link is not fucking dead in Majora's Mask. He has a gravestone in the Hyrule Castle courtyard in TP, and it's made clear he grew up to become a knight. TP Link is OoT's blood descendant. Fucking CHRIST.
You're link from OOT, looking for navi. You wander into the lost woods and cross dimensions.
There's probably an alternate version of link in this world. Speculation is that its kafei.
My friend said pic related
Your friend is a fucking retard. Link is a child in Majora's Mask. He does not die. He goes back to Hyrule, grows up, becomes a knight, fucks somebody (probably Malon) and eventually dies like normal fucking people do.
He appears as a shade because he feels regret for not passing on his techniques to his blood.
>Fill me in on all the lore and how it all fits together with as little spoilers as possible.
Allow me to warn you now, most Zelda "canon" is very poorly thought out. More often than not, events in each individual game hardly ever matter in the grand scheme of the series.
And to note that clusterfucker after OOT: They only decided to have a "canon" some time after OOT came out, so they used to time travel to cover their asses instead of having to think more in depth about the overall plot arc.
Turn back now, before you become a blithering Zeldalore fag. You have been warned.
I don't think I've ever seen Zelda lore praised. The games are great as games.
I've only ever seen people argue about the lore because it's so poorly thought out. "Vague" is just an excuse.
>They only decided to have a "canon" some time after OOT came out
Are you conveniently forgetting the fact that AoL is a direct sequel of LoZ?
And that is directly followed by another game with a direct sequel?
And that OoT's story was clearly the war mentioned in the opening of aLttP?
There's always been a canon, you dumb faggot.
The Link is dead shit is just a theory, though a somewhat-strongly support theory with a lot of evidence behind it, even though Nintendo likes to deny some of it (probably due to their family-friendly image and all.)
Hell when you get to the moon and check you map it says that your location is in fucking Ikana graveyard, it doesn't get more eerie or blatant than that.
We all know what really happens to hylians when they get lost in the woods though. They fall victims of the curse, fall asleep, die and become either skull kids or stalfos depending on the age of the individual.
The lore of game continuity doesn't really matter that much.
OoT is where the timeline splits, and games released from that point on take place in the 3 different timelines. There's nothing that exciting or important about it. TP has a nod to OoT with the hero of time but that's pretty obscure and plenty of people didn't catch it.
Just play the games and have fun, anon.
Also Twilight Princess is best 3D Zelda. Play it on gamecube though, not on the Wii.
>Believing the Hyrule Historia shit
You know at some point the Zelda team brainstormed to be a girl and a Twili, right?
The Hero of Time shit is just an after-affect of Nintendo throwing a bone to fans and their theories. Hell, even the historia considers this to be a theory or a rumor; and besides a few of the howling stone songs he has more in common with SS Link than anyone else.
If you have a solid PC it will emulate decently.
Also on dolphin you can get the gamecube collectors edition which contains OoT and MM in gamecube format which is nice. MM runs like a 3 legged horse on an actual gamecube, but maybe it runs nicely on an actual PC that's suited to it.
This, Zelda lore is a clusterfuck of last-minute decisions and retcons and I don't even know why the fanbase continues to bother with it after Skyward Sword, Hyrule Historia and A Link between Worlds.
Also OP everything starts to fall apart after TP. The series phases into complete mediocrity after that, play everything before TP and don't bother with anything after it.
Timeline was fun when there wasn't really one and threads about it were just people discussing their own theories and discussing the games in general as a result.
Once HH "made" a timeline, it's was no longer fun to talk about it. Doesn't help there are some "flaws" in the official timeline and ALBW fucked things up a whole lot.
>So it isnt as praised and as solid as everyone says?
Fuck no. It's a complete mess. Just look at the first timeline in your OP pic as an example. Link was never defeated in OoT, there is no alternative possibility or ending to support such, it was literally something that Nintendo invented on a whim to sell a book.
The lore went to hell once Aonuma gained complete control over the franchise anyway.
Aonuma is too stupid to reconize that "less is more" in regards to Zelda lore, and "show, don't tell" is vital to the progression of the games' plotlines as a whole.
Kozumi understood this, and that is why MM is still talked about till this very day, and why the Hero of Time is still essentially the fan-favorite Link out of the entire franchise.
From the other side of the convo. Fuck game theory, but anybody have the thread from around last november when somebody talked about all this shit, proved it all wrong? Im trying to pull details out of top of my head on what he talked about, but just can't get it quite down. A day long on vyvanse and 3 hours of sleep does this to you.
I can see where you're coming from. But Wind Waker's attachment to the previous lore was elegantly done and worked well even with minimal knowledge of the previous games. You don't NEED to stitch every Zelda game together. In my opinion, it detracts from the more interesting discussions of each game as standalone constructs.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little Moblin? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Gerudo Shooting Range, and I’ve been involved in numerous bossfights with Odalwa, and I have over 300 colorful masks. I am trained in Goron warfare and I’m the top slinger in the entire Kokiri Forest. You are nothing to me but just another pot I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before in Hyrule, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the course of seven years? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of Owl Statues across the fields and your treasure chest is being traced right now so you better prepare for the Song of Storms, scrub. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your windmill. You’re fucking dead, gramps. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with an empty bottle. Not only am I extensively trained in tennis combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Happy Mask Store and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the timeline, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn Keese. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, grampa.
I think Koizumi had a different idea of what the Zelda formula was. If you look at the games he's worked on, they kind of follow the pattern of the first two games: you have a game with the Triforce, Zelda, and Ganon, then a weird direct sequel to that game with the same Link, but different locations and elements. Then it starts again with what is essentially a reboot with the familiar elements.
Aonuma changed that by introducing this timeline thing and trying to tie everything together.
I disagree. I think the whole game's pretty meaningless to people who didn't play OoT because it assumes you know who Ganondorf is and why he's bad, because otherwise you have no reason to go after him after Aryll is rescued.
Also the game is filled with callbacks which are some of its worst and most confusing points. Why did the Zora turn into bird people? Did we really need to retread the three goddess things to get the Master Sword again? And let's not forget the much maligned Triforce Hunt which was ripped straight out of the first game.
To clarify, Wind Waker was actually my first Zelda game.
>because it assumes you know who Ganondorf is and why he's bad
Not really. The King of Red Lions outright said "this guy took ur sister d00d". That's enough reasoning.
I'd never heard of the Zora when I played the game so that part actually made perfect sense to me. Time changes stuff, this was thousands of years in the future, it worked for me.
The three Goddess thing fit just fine and didn't need all that much explanation. It also gave you a reason to hunt down the Triforce pieces. Not defending that part of the game because it was a tedious piece of shit, but it had enough reasoning behind it to make sense.
Technically Link would turn into a skull kid as he's a child throughout MM, and only adults turn into stalfos.
There's some support for it to, as the Skull Kid is pretty much just a foil to Link in MM; both are lonely kids who long for friendship, Link ends up with tatl (the light fairy) while Skull Kid ends up with Tael (the dark fairy,) both appear to be share the same height and physique in the concept art, and the fact that the Skull Kid has the Kokiri symbol embroidered on his gloves. (This is fairly unusual because Kokiri do not turn into skull kids on account of being fairy folk, meaning that the Skull Kid was once a normal hylian that had a strong affiliation with the Kokiri - just like Link. So perhaps he's Link's true Terminian parallel or one of them at least, along with Kafei, Tingle, the Fierce Deity and so on.)
On the other hand, I remember reading an interesting theory regarding TP's skull kid a few months before Hyrule Historia's release, which was catching on with 4chan and
tumblr.Something about TP's skull kid being the Hero of Time who became cursed in the Lost woods during or shortly after MM, on account of him being the only left-handed character besides Link and The Heroe's Shade in the original CG version, the hat and the leaf on his back strongly resembling his cap and shield in shape, wearing blue earrings and other things. There's also the weird the fact that he's essentially guarding the temple of time and the master sword, which many people found to be suspicious or weird since release. The howling stone that summons him also plays Zelda's lullaby and has the spirit stones engraved into it, something that only the Hero of Time had complete knoweldge of.
It was a really interesting theory that eventually died off with Hyrule Historia's release, like most theories at the time.
Holy shit, thanks. Thats what I must of ment by that. Stuff like that always makes me wonder if its just little things put in to add that bit of wonder, or just overlooked stuff when they made the game. I haven't gotten into the game like I used to when I was a child, and I'm kind of sad that I gave up on the series. Was Skyward Sword any good?
It's more like the first entry was generic fantasy stuff to lure in the audience, while the sequel was when shit started getting real.
In other words, the first game was about a generic hero fighting a generic big bad to save a generic princess and then case closed.
MM, LA and AoL were more or less about Link's personal journey and Link fighting off his own inner fears and demons. In LA, the final boss was literally the nightmare and took the form of Agahnim and Ganon, Link defeating them resulted in the complete destruction of the Wind Fish's (and his) personal dream world. MM is literally described as a personal journey from the start, and invovles Link reliving his own personal hells of meeting people and being forgotten by them through a groundhog cycle. And although Koizumi didn't work on AoL, the final boss in that game was Dark Link, a reflection of his inner self that he needed to defeat in order to claim the Triforce of courage.
Post Aonuma Zelda's don't have this anymore, but that could entirely be due to the fact that the delayed dev cycles have gotten so bad that they don't have the time to deliver two games per console anymore. Then again PH was a sequel to WW, but shit never got real in that game either.
I think it's just Koizumi who likes introspection and some "heavier" themes and tones. I mean the guy went to film school, he's gnashing his teeth under Miyamoto's "no story" policy, which is probably why he cooked up Rosalina's whole storybook underneath his desk when no one was looking. He got introspection, death, and moving on in a Mario game of all things.
I really admire that. Majora's Mask was probably the first game I felt was really meaningful, and I was like ten years old when I played it.
>Thats what I must of ment by that.
No, I don't think that's what you meant by that. It was just a really interesting theory I remember reading about until Hyrule Historia was released, which I provided as a counter-argument of sorts. Just to show how open-ended things really were until Historia came along and fucked all of the magic and mystery over. So this was a long while ago.
I think the evidence you're talking about is in a recent youtube video that actually proves that Link was never cursed or dead from the start.
IDK what you're friend is talking about in his texts though. But yes, when people fall victim to the Lost Wood's curse, there is a decent into madness/dream-like states involved, which can be seen with Grogg during the Biggoron Sword sidequest in OoT.
I should say excepting AoL obviously because he had nothing to do with that game.
Might be that he was a fan of AoL though. Wasn't that why he was so insistent on getting the 3rd person swordfighting stuff into OoT?
I was talking about first one. somewhere I remember them talking about how people In woods turn into stalfos or skull kids, and for some reason my mind went towards hylian - stalfos and kokiri - skull kid. Iirc even the kokiri residents talk about how wjen turning into wjatever in the woods its people who go lost and go insane or something. The first one you put its almost what the person said.