>>291145713 >Dark Souls 2 is harder I don't think that's true at all. My first DaS2 run was easier than my 100th DaS run, or my whatever DeS run. I always tried getting my friends in to the Souls games too, and they complained they were too hard, until DaS2 when they finally stuck through it. They still haven't beaten DeS.
To have played a Souls game for real though, you need to play it in the first 3 weeks of release or so, before all the metagaming shit starts and fucks it all up. So I'm not surprised taht a lot of band wagoners rank DeS lower. They never got a chance to play it with the initial large community and without the metagaming.
I killed kingseeker frampt when he popped up in firelink shrine. I didn't even know he was an ally, I just went to the shrine after beating some boss and assumed he was an enemy. I want to restart so bad but I think I only have one more lord soul to grab.
As an example, calling friendly allies to help you beat a level. During week one you get people that are just as clueless as you are and it is fun going through the levels. During week 8 or whatever you get fully min/maxed allies that cruise through every enemy before you can do anything, holding your hand through the whole level and it isn't fun anymore.
Never say this, it just makes it obvious you're projecting.
>DaS was a huge improvement and still different enough
Stunted movesets (strength weapons outside of swords are particularly shafted). Shite level design in the second half with the game being evidently unfinished. God awful pvp middleman that is covenants. Magic somehow even more broken than it was in DeS thanks to pyromancy. Generic bombastic hollywood ost with ominous chanting on every track. Pallete swap bosses and generic mooks used as boss fights.
Only thing that's objectively better about DaS is the amount of content.
>>291148185 I agree with you. I think it has a lot to do with the allround intuitive direction that the gameplay takes you.(an example of awful intuitive direction is Skyrim's walking simulator gameplay). also the random dungeons. what do you think?
>>291149882 >Never say this, it just makes it obvious you're projecting. It doesn't really, sometimes it's just said because the other poster is visibly getting frustrated. But nice memes and so on.
DaS's got more different weapons with more different move sets, so I don't know what you're talking about. The second half being unfinished doesn't even comapre to a sixth of DeS outright missing and finished levels in DaS being better and more connected in general. Honestly DeS had two pretty bad areas, worlds 2 and 5, which is huge considering there were only five of them. Covenants weren't a necessary middleman and the cat covenant is still keeping it alive. >magic less broken in a game where you can recharge mana lel I know this is subjective, even though you're not treating it as such, but DeS soundtrack was incredibly hit and miss. Even if you take out all the stray/ass/fire demons and capras, there's still more of them than in DeS and they're much better designed fights. Going back and fighting the penetrator again made me realize just how bad it was, you can literally stunlock him to death.
DaS had better combat, random mechanics like no equip burden and a limited number of spells, plunging attacks etc, bosses, lore and especially world design. Atmosphere is debatable since it comes down to taste, but I like it much better in DaS as well.
>>291150464 Favorite boss fights /v/? Erby and BSB remain my favorite boss fights to date Pikachu and Snorlax and artorius and Iron Golem with tarkus are my DaS favorites Sihn so far is my only favorite for DaS2 Didn't play demon souls but really want to
>>291150752 >DeS PvP there were like three viable weapons, rapid-fire grass munching that was ridiculously hard to punish, glitches like running firestorm, lmao 2kat stunlock DeS PvP was only good in it's native form of random invasions, any kind of structured PvP was a joke.
As someone who played DaS first, I don't get it. DeS is fun from what I've played of it, don't get me wrong, but it just feels like a less refined version of what I've already played without an open world.
>>291149718 Do you mean from DS2? I only rented DS2 for a short period of time and the bell gargoyles were pretty much the only boss I beat myself. They're actually really easy, I think I remember you can block their fire?
>>291150918 It really fucking does People who defend it are either pcfats or trolling When I invade in cainhurst sometimes I'll just stand right by the lamp and stare at the fucking castle or in Nightmare of Menstruation, only other place I did that in was anor londo
>>291151559 To me it's really the fact that it has the most content Ton of builds to fuck around with makes for good replay value despite the game being the weakest from single run standpoint. Really if DaS2 had the connectivity of DaS areas I would probably think it's best in the series, but the linearity kinda killed it and made the game feel overall lot worse.
>>291150847 >DaS's got more different weapons with more different move sets, so I don't know what you're talking about
Try comparing maces/axes movesets in DaS to how they worked in DeS.
>muh sixth archstone!
Every time. You can play the entire game and never realise this was supposed to be playable. There's absolutely zero mention of the sixth archstone in-game beyond a brief description stating it was destroyed. This is an optimal way of cutting unfinished content (content that consists of an extremely unfinished base level and a few rough enemy models).
DaS on the other hand just throws in all the unfinished shit like ash lake and lost izalith and the incredibly half arsed covenants. I've replayed DaS a few times and I always drop the game after Anor Londo (which itself isn't even a particularly good level seeing as the majority of the level is corridors and a few big, empty rooms) because it means i'm going to have to play through a bunch of shitty gimmick levels like TotG and Crystal Caves.
>DaS had better combat
Well it's certainly slower but I don't know if that's a good thing.
>>291151939 every single game in the souls series has similar AND unique problems, people seem to look over them when defending their favorite one, EG defending DeS to death without mentioning the awful mechanic that fucked over your entire savefile and made it better to kill yourself in the nexus, or the fact that online was the worst in the series.
now since DS2 is not the favorite for a lot of people (since usually the favorite is the first of the series people play) no one defends it that much, but fuck me if it isn't repayable and fun as fuck
>>291152032 >ash lake I don't know, Ash Lake didn't really feel that unfinished to me, it felt like there really isn't supposed to me much there. Lost Izalith and Duke's Archives were the most disappointing areas to me, lot of people don't seem to like New Londo but I liked it a lot for some reason.
>>291152197 I didn't really post that webm to highlight the graphics, considering my PC runs it like shit and all, but if you think that looks like "absolute shit" then there's really no point in arguing with you
>>291152364 You are delusional. Even Anor Londo felt rushed because of the poor enemy variety and braindead simplicity. Then you have areas like the fucking crystal caves which make you wonder if the devs even tried at all.
>>291152260 Yeah but it all somehow feels more connected despite the areas not connecting, like everything in the world seems to fit in place and don't really feel off, it seems like a "real" place. In DaS2 it feels more like you are going from one videogame level to another, each with different theme to the last and I just really preferred DaS for what it was.
>>291152258 Fun fact: Miyazaki is a director of DaS2 while working on AotA and after a good while before he was removed from that position and replaced by Shibuya. Fun fact: Tanimura were appointed as DaS2 director after the original build were completely scrapped, though he wish to start from scrap he is denied from doing so due to budget and resource Fun fact: As a supervisor, Miyazaki were quoted to be the one who responsible for overseeing the budget and development schedule for DaSII Fun fact: The only area where the 'B-team' manage to start form scratch is the DLC area, which is arguably the best level in Souls series
Personal preference, I guess. I think DeS has enough bosses that are kind of lame to fight already, so taking a bossfight that can be pretty intense and making it a cakewalk feels like cheating myself.
>>291152821 I liked the woods are, crystal caves and the prison parts, but the actual archives were absolute fucking shit. Felt like they just copy pasted the whole place and dropped the crystal faggot enemies here and there and called it a day.
>>291152843 Shit opinion mate Also look at the area this isn't medival times its modern era the monsters aren't going to be dragons or Knights it's going to be modern nightmare style monsters Eribetas is excellent for design and amygdala was also awesome as was Paarl I doubt you played the game but here's your reply
>>291153090 well having shitty rolls IS a feature, considering there's a fucking stat for it, sure I don't like it, but if you level ADP up to about 15 you'll have exactly the same roll as in DaS and you can stop crying, most of the webms you're posting it's obvious the guy is looking to get hit,
>>291153328 The beginning only has you fighting giants. The bridge only has you fighting 2 gargoyles that don't respawn. The painted world room has you fighting the painting guardians and nothing else. You fight only electric gargoyles when approaching the castle and then you fight almost exclusively silver knights in the castle. It's fucking dull. In the earlier areas there were always different types of enemies mixed and matched together thoughtfully to provide a challenge, along with interesting environments to fight in. The only thing that comes close to being that in Anor Londo is the part with the archers, otherwise you might as well randomize the enemy positions and pretty much nothing will change.
>>291153282 I disagree only based on the fact that it is really easy for them to shoot a spear at you from behind if you're not wearing the thief's ring. You will ALWAYS know where the black skeletons are coming from since you have to get pretty close to aggro them, with or without the thief ring.
>>291153473 Just be sure to have one ranged option, piece of cake.
Why are these rolling skeletons the hardest enemy in any souls game? There's no dodging that roll, literally impossible. You have to either block it or hope they stop in front of you to use that fucking strong slam. That's their one and only opening too. Fuck these guys. Nothing gets me angrier than these faggots.
I just don't think that bossfights with multiple bosses at the same time are good design. It's just a way to add difficulty in a very lazy way which also makes the fight very random because you have to depend even more on the moveset of the bosses and hope that they won't do some fucked up combo
I haven't played either but that looks like a far more legitimate 'shockwave' and besides that you can see it clipping him at the end. The hitbox is perhaps a bit larger than it ought to be but that's got nothing on what I've seen of DaS2.
>>291153916 Amazing how an elbow that actually didn't hit somehow hit If anything the foot hit You're fucking blind get glasses the kill yourself >>291153912 >everyone whose ever made a building is now lazy
Earthen peak was supposed to lead to the undead crypt. Rotten was supposed to be the boss of the catacombs, and was just a throwaway boss, not a a greatsoul holder. he'd cut off his legs to get to you
the Dragon Shrine was supposed to be Drangleic Castle, which is why it's so heavily featured in trailers and promotional stuff,and even the very intro cinematic, as that castle on a rocky peak, with dragons all over the place. the Dragon Shrine itself is barely a stage. It's Demon Ruins/Lost Izalith levels of unfinished and unrealized potential.
The dragon memory was a boss fight/NPC encounter (with the ancient dragon, which is why you get his soul there)
Aldia's keep very likely had a second level, be it upper or lower.
Iron Keep was much larger, and featured actual weapons manufacturing areas with conveyor belts, gears, the works.
there was an area like the depths which likely led to the gutter.
the "dark chasm of old" is the re purposed remains of an entire stage, which was supposed to be a dripstone cavern like place, where you encountered a dead dragon/dragon skeleton. it was preceeded by a graveyard looking area.
Undead purgatory had a back entrance. if you go behind the wall at the bottom of the staircase, there is some partially rendered hallway geometry, an entrance, and a small path. shaded woods has some unused path geometry too if you look at the rocky formation above the fog.
even with the eventual final version of the castle, the aqueduct in the shaded ruins was supposed to be a side path to the castle.
>>291154298 They're cool, but after trudging through 50 regular knights before them, they aren't all that impressive. I did like dancing around the two opposite spear-bows before killing smelter's though.
There was originally a time travel plot that was very much more prominent. The Ashen Mist heart is the remains of what was heavily marketed as this magic pendant. the intro cinematic has you going back in time, after showing us an effect which we come to recognize later as the fireflies buzzing around time travel objects like the giant trees or vendrick's armor. the old hag in the intro, "that old dear", is the Emerald herald, in whatever time in the future you come from. She says some of the same shit that the Herald says, and even teases you with possibly being familiar with Drangleic.
there's cut content with that time travel shit, where you would have met the herald as a child, and given her a special feather she wants. she'd then give you a blessing type dealio, with an incantation very similar to the maiden in black's. her model was even still in the vanilla game. (though its since been removed) and her child actress is even credited, and her lines still written and present (though not voiced)
it would have made the moment she gives you the aged feather (another thing that was featured in early trailers) much more important, as she's returning it to you.
>>291154625 Everything in dukes archives was layered exactly where it needed to go you stupid motherfucker Just like in any building this wasn't a fucking castle seriously drink bleach and stream it I'll pay
The only true, objective opinion is that all souls games and bloodborne are great. Which ones are better is purely subjective. DeS and BB had great atmosphere and level design. DaS had the best bosses and most coherent plot and lore, and the most satisfying PvE combat. DaS2 has the best multiplayer features and connectivity and the best build variety. It also had the most content and the most player-friendly mechanics (like respeccing).
>>291154524 while the game could've been an absolute masterpiece, I still think it's pretty good, every souls game has had lost potential sadly, imagine if post-anor londo in DaS had like 1 more year of development
>>291154935 Do you know what level design is, you mongoloid? Designing a believable area is the easy part, actually filling it with interesting enemies, paths, gimmicks and other challenges is where the difficulty lies.
>>291145074 >you will never fight a black phantom on 4-1 or 4-2 for the first time again >you will never run through the narrow walkways of 4-2 trying to escape the host and heal for the first time again >you will never fight someone using LMAO2KAT!!11!!!1 on 1-4 for the first time again ;_____;
>>291155161 You only fight 2 ruin sentinels at most, unless you are an idiot and drop down. The ruin sentinels are well done. First you fight one in the platform to learn his moveset and then the game tests your skill against 2 of them in the bottom floor. And the fight is fun as fuck in Co-op.
>>291156507 You can easily get hitbox'd down and have to face them all. Happened to me a few times despite clearly rolling out of it. Sentinels were still completely out of place and better served as high-mobs.
while i agree it would be great to have perfect hitboxes, the games are still fun as fuck and id rather play a souls game with imperfect hit boxes than some generic fantasy trash like TES. in reality the bad hitboxes very rarely affect the gameplay, at least for me.
are there people here who really feel that all these cherrypicked examples ruin the gamesfor them? i'm genuinely curious whether people are seriousor if it it is truly just le epic shitpost
>>291156806 >I'd rather play a broken game than a fixed game Souls with non-nip programming would be GOAT. And how would having technically correct physics and the such make it "Generic fantasy trash"?
I just can't be bothered with DaS2, every time I tried it the AI cheeses me. I avoid being a cheeser myself, why the fuck am I being punished for it? Why have they even implemented mechanics that let the AI cheese you?
>shockwave solution: muh adaptability It doesn't change the fact that the enemy's attack is clearly NOT connecting but still hits. Instead of adding adaptability they should have ironed out or even reworked the hitbox system such that i-frames are unnecessary. Lazy coding. >enemies that 720 noscope Just what the fuck. If you use Havel as an example he's an exception & still isn't as bad as DaS2 enemies in general, & it's usually people over-strafing anyway. >enemies cannot be staggered if they're near the end of their attack animation What's the fucking point of this? Heavy weapons were already nerfed to shit in terms of damage, now they even punish you for using it skillfully?
I couldn't give 2 shits about the story or environment, well sure I'd like them to be good, but without the right gameplay what's the point of playing the game in the first place?
>>291157057 >>enemies that 720 noscope >Just what the fuck. If you use Havel as an example he's an exception & still isn't as bad as DaS2 enemies in general, & it's usually people over-strafing anyway.
this isnt really true, you can easily dodge any enemy in the game, the windows are just smaller which means you need better timing than you did in DaS1. as much as i love the first game, you didnt even need to dodge 90% of enemies because you could just strafe around them because their tracking was so god-awful. at least in DaS2 you need to focus on dodging or blocking since you cant just 'step in a circle to their left/right and then backstab' for literally every single enemy in the game
>>291147356 >mfw I just couldn't like Dark Souls II I just ran into too much shit that bothered me. >Breaking these windows open lets light into the room. That would have been really cool if they didn't butcher the lighting. >Alright a shortcut. Oh it's right beside another bonfire. What was the point? >Hey I remember this area from the trailers and E3 demos, only now it looks like shit and with shittier enemies. >Why are these NPCs so terrible? They don't even have their own storylines anymore. Oh Lucatiel, you've got a conclusion to your arc or, oh you're just going to give me your clothes and disappear okay bye.
i wish they did away with ADP and VIT. i like the "iFrames on a spectrum" mechanic instead of the 25/50/75 equip load system of DaS1, but it should just be tied to equipload instead of a stat. on top of that, they should drop VIT and just make equipload tied to strength.
>>291157709 And why can't you track as well as the enemies can? One of the things that used to appeal to me was that you & your enemies pretty much all had similar sets of stats & therefore you all worked within the same ruleset. Why didn't they make strafing slower, & give both you & enemies the ability to redirect your attack during the wind-up within a limited angle, making the actual swing animation change instead of having the enemies twirl around like merry-go-rounds?
I'm just saying, I was disappointed that they didn't look for creative solutions that increased depth & instead of lazy fixes.
>>291157423 >And that last one is plain wrong. I can no longer touch this game to record it, nor do I know what terms to search for online, so I have no proof to refute this statement.
>>291149138 >I will never understand how anyone could consider something I don't like the best first time on the internet? You sound salty over other peoples opinions and you're trying to invalidate them.
Annoying areas in Demon's Souls: Stonefang Tunnel >mazes, thrust/magic gimmick, meatwall enemies, mandatory for upgrade mats early Tower Of Latria >never-ending screaming and moaning, maze of keys and locked doors that all looks the same, overall lack of direction Valley of Defilement >easy but tedious and slow, takes too goddamn long to get the goodies at the far ends of the huge second area, mosquitos Shrine of Storms >constant sniper rays, obscenely powerful and obscenely high defense black skeletons, dodge-heavy sequences on narrow cliff ledges, worst bosses that both pose no threat and take forever >80% of the game
Annoying areas in Dark Souls: Blighttown >It's fucking Blighttown Painted World of Ariamis >!!TOXIC!! because most have no fire weapon or really long weapon, bonewheel rape tunnels, the horror of unpatched permanent gravelord Lost Izalith >It's fucking Lost Izalith Duke's Archives >Crystal hollow archers and channelers with perfect, total 2000/20 vision who can shoot you from anywhere, crystal hollows and their tankiness in general The Great Hollow >even without mentioning the fall deaths, did you ever go crystal lizard hunting here? Did you even know there were like ELEVEN, and getting any of them is pure suffering? >~22% of the game
>>291160078 This, they should have tied both iframes & movement speed to equip load only, on a spectrum, where at various points in the spectrum there are completely different animations not just for moving & rolling but for attacking & maybe even blocking as well.
Good bosses some great ones, especially in the DLC Great weapon and armour variety PVP at it's best in the series Base game was somewhat messed up because of development issues
3. Dark Souls
Great content up until post anor londo, where the game feels like it slows down a lot.
Great atmosphere Game feels less challenging and feels more casualised in comparison to previous games, the removal of variety in weapons, stats, magic, removal of weight and other miniscule things like roll variety, along with a retarded healing system and other performance issues makes the game less replayable. Online system that barely works and is a massive downstep from even demons souls
5. Demons Souls Decent online functions Bosses often feel gimmicky The game feels more like a blueprint for better games
>>291152624 What's "funny" is that I went through the effort of pirating SotFS, even seeded for a few days, and that bullshit with the ogre grab happened to me while still in things betwixed. Quit in about 60 seconds. What a waste of bandwidth.
>>291163435 Best in respective game: False King, Artorias, Sir Alonne, Gerhman
Fantastic Flamelurker, Maiden Astraea, False King, Kalameet, Ornstein and Smough, Artorias, Four Kings, Manus, Velstadt, Darklurker, Sinh, Fume Knight, Burnt Ivory King, Sir Alonne
Good Maneater, Tower Knight, Bell Gargoyles, Capra Demon, Quelaag, Gwyn, Sanctuary Guardian, Sif, Pursuer, Ruin sentinels, Looking Glass Knight, The lost sinner, Smelter Demon, Freja, Vendrick, Throne Watcher/Defender, Aava, Abhorrent Beast, Bloodletting beast, Paarl, Father Gascoigne, Yharnam, Gehrman
Okay Adjudicator, Dirty Collosus, Penetrator, Old Hero Storm King, Vanguard, Asylum Demon, Centipede demon, Priscilla, Gaping Dragon, Nito, Iron Golem, Seath, Taurus Demon, Dragonrider, Old Dragonslayer, Flexile Sentry, Demon of Song, Belfry Gargoyles, Najka, Rat Authority, Chariot, The rotten, Lud and Zallen, Blood starved Beast, Cleric Beast, Keeper of the old lords, Martyr Logarius, Wet Nurse, Moon Presence, Pthumerian Descendant, Elder, Vicar ammelia, Watchdog
Bad Armor Spider, Leechmonger, Phalanx, Fools Idol, Gwyndolin, Firesage, Moonlight butterfly, pinwheel, Stray Demon, Last giant, Skeleton Lords, Mytha, Old Iron King, Rat Vangaurd, Dragonriders, Guardian Dragon, Giant Lord, Nashandra, Aldia, Elana, Gank Trio, Amygdala, Celestial Emmisary, Ebrietas, Rom, Shadows, The one reborn, undead giant
Terrible Dragon God, King Allant, Bed of Chaos, Ceaseless Discharge, Magus and the congregation, Ancient Dragon, Micolash, The witches of Hemwick, Beast possessed soul, brainsucker, forgotten madman, Maneater Boar, Merciless watcher
>>291162864 >DeSbabby >adding babby to everything >le maymay buzzwords XD you sure showed him anon. Shrines of Storms is boring and it has the worst bosses. But if you think Stonefang Tunnel is a maze you need some sense of orientation. Even the Tower of Latria is more of a maze and every set of keys literally says the number of the floor they're for.
The valley of defilement is bland and it could be much more than a simple "everything is red-dump"
>>291163112 In Dark Souls 1? Hammers. Whips. Caestus, claw is decent.
>>291163148 Zweihander, Greatsword, Demon Great Machete, Claymore, Bastard Sword, Falchion, Shotel, Estoc, Rapier, Longsword, Balder Side Sword, Halberd, Gargoyle Halberd, Scythe, Great Scythe, Lifehunt Scythe, Winged Spear, Silver Knight Spear, Demon's Spear, Abyss Greatsword, Gold Tracer, Large Club, Uchigatana, Iaito, Chaos Blade, Washing Pole, a fucking lot, these are just off the top of my head, there are many more.
Alright then, let's see here. These are all off the top of my head, there's surely more viable weapons but I simply did not use them for my playstyle >zweihander >halberd >lucerne >dark knight's halberd >astora's straight sword >estoc >Richard's rapier >spear >partizan >Artorias' greatsword >iron tarkus' greatsword >greatscythe >dark silver tracer >gold tracer >Ornstein's spear >dark knight greatsword >every weapon that scales with DEX
Fuck it, why am I even responding to a faggot of your caliber who clearly hasn't played the game?
>>291163389 Black Knight equipment is directly inferior to everything it's based off. It's only good early game. They all have equivalent damage output to their counterparts, except with worse movesets and higher weight and lower speed. Even the halberd. Its only meaningful difference is poise damage, which is uniquely higher.
The silver knight straight sword is nothing compared to zwei. It's a slow straight sword that has no combos and its r2s aren't especially powerful at 100+ pvp. Compared to a fast-type ultra greatsword with several combos, including infinites and ways to deal with toggling.
If they worked properly and soul levels weren't an issue, are they not the best in the series?
Having other players automatically summoned to help with invaders? Awesome. I'd also like to see members of the pvp/blood covenant automatically summoned to help invaders as well, but only once the condition of their being three co-op players in the game.
So basically - If someones co-oping, and they get invaded, its 2 on 1. Soon as that condition is met, it sends out a signal for another cooperator. And as soon as THAT condition is met, it sends out a signal for another invader.
So in a situation where you have 5 actual skilled players, you're in a fight with three coopers and two invaders, to the DEATH.
>>291165012 I mean that it's a slow-TYPE straight sword. Like how the manserpent greatsword and black knight sword are the same speed, which happens to be slower than the claymore. The SKSS and sunlight straight sword are both in the same way slower than other straight swords.
The sunlight straight sword slightly makes up for it by having higher AR than other straight swords. The SKSS doesn't. Quality trumps over it each time. It doesn't have stunlock like other straight swords, it doesn't have the AR of other straight swords, it doesn't have the r2 power of balder side sword, etc. It doesn't have anything going for it besides style and glorious looks. In a pure pvp sense, it's not what you want, over the longsword or similar.
The zwei has no such drawbacks. Zwei has many things going for it, some I've already mentioned, and more. It is comparatively slow, yet still capable.
>>291145074 >replay all Souls games after finishing Bloodborne >aw yea time for some Demons Souls >it's ugly as fuck, incredibly easy, and by far the most boring one >the only good part of the game is Tower of Latria this isn't how I remembered it
>>291145428 For me its basically DeS=BB=DaS >>>>>>>>>>> DaS2 I will say I find Bloodborne's gameplay to be the best, quicker, responsive and much more intense than the others but loses out in say replayability and variety.
>>291169409 >>291169564 >>291170049 I'm playing DeS for the first time too after playing Bloodborne and the weapon upgrading is more confusing. I don't know if I should always just be trying to find a new better weapon or just upgrading whatever weapon I like. The upgrades don't seem to be a huge damage boost compared to finding something better.
>>291162156 You are big dumbo if you really wanted pure bladestone you would just get pure black world tendency and go for the black phantom skeleton before Old One boss Yeah I also farmed on this skelington you show in pic but it took me 20 mins for the one I mentioned
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