I'm for it. PC games are very unreliable products, when it comes to performance. It's not like a dvd or cd, where you know it works (unless it's physically damaged) and the experience is the same for everyone. The publishers can't guarantee that a game will run okay, or even at all, and it's not always the buyers or the sellers fault. Sometimes it's discovered that a specific piece of hardware is to blame, or some other shit.
It's a very good way of feeling more secure when buying games. There's always another Arkham Knight waiting to be unleashed.
>>315290517 Okay i hate valve but you my friend are retarded as fuck. They told everyone at the release of steam refunds that you can only refund shit that you have bought in a timespan of 2 weeks with less than 2h
>>315289217 >bought a game because it looked awesome in trailer >play for one hour >realize there's nothing more to it >multiplayer is broken >thx Gabe for looking out for me
If I can return stuff, bought in real store, then why the fuck I shouldn't be able to return digital stuff? Especially now that we get more games than ever and most of them are just shit made purely for quick cash-in.
>>315290517 they didn't change policy, it was 2 weeks, 2 hours from day 1. People were getting refunds beyond these caps mostly because Valve was flooded with requests and system was still new, so very few employees bothered to check if refund is legit.
>>315290401 >hopefully it will also discourage another arkham knight Considering AC syndicate, and that Knight relaunched in a state described by a select few as even worse than the original launch, I´d say it has failed in that regard...
>>315291691 It can only impact the behaviour of the publishers, not the developers, and the publishers´ actions should account for the possibility of severely diminished revenue from steam since the very first day of that policy being instituted.
So yes. The game´s development is not influenced by the chance that it will sell less, only the publisher´s decision how well to optimize, or in these cases, make fundamentally playable.
They are great. My PC is quite shitty and the lack of demos means that the only way I could check if a game runs well is to pirate it. Now I can buy anything I want without fear of wasting money. Plus having the ability to refund games I don't find fun is great too, and 2 hours is a decent amount of time to decide.
>>315289217 I hate if you buy multiple things you have to return everything if you want everything to go back to your credit card.
like I bought 3 games and played a single one of those games for over 5 hours and wanted to return the other two for money back to my credit card and they wont let me do this because I played that single game for over an hour.
>>315294987 As opposed to creating well polished videos or selling the games exclusively on hype? The worst case scenario is that they won't help the consumer much. Also companies releasing demos of their games was the standard for well over a decade and this was never an issue. Don't create imaginary problems where there are none.
I like them for the obvious reason that I'm a customer, so there's that. I think it's beneficial for steam and indie devs too, I've made a lot more risky/impulse buying decisions lately because the refund system is sort of a safety net for bad purchases.
With the increase of shovelware on steam and companies like WB pulling crap like sub-standard PC ports (Arkham Knight, Mortal Kombat X, etc), it is a welcome addition. That isn't even speaking of all the games that are borked thanks to shit like GFWL being defunct and some titles not having proper patching to remove it (GTAIV is a prime example). That, or games that just have major issues or do not work the way they should.
Indie developers are going to whine and complain, and while I do see some people abusing it I think it will help weed out a lot of crap. If you are going to release something to a marketplace like Steam, it NEEDS to work at launch and not have major bugs or frame rate drops (That and just be decent quality, I don't fault anyone for refunding something they dislike). Personally? I think the return window should be 4-5 hours played, not 2.
Your'e far FAR too past the point of being able to get a refund, timewise, even if you barely touched the games, sorry.
However, if you *really* want those games removed from your steam game list, its actually possible to contact their customer service and request those games be permanently removed from your account (without a refund).
>>315289217 It's the sole reason WB had to remove Arkham Knight from the Store months ago. Developers and publishers will have a harder time releasing broken and unfinished crap from now on. An absolute win for consumers and something that should have been introduced back in fucking 2004, when the store opened.
Watch Ubisoft drop Steam in favor of Uplay exclusivity starting next year once they see the amount of people refunding the newest AssCreed later this month for being a broken piece of shit.
With their massively low standards for Greenlight, refunds allow consumers not to feel burned by Steam and get their money back from shitty games.
I understand Indie developers complaints, but come on. Your game needs more than two hours of satisfying game play as standard really. If your game is only 30 minutes long then its more like a tech demo.
First the option for refunds are great for the consumer and generate goodwill among them.
Second, this lets them have an excuse for the increasing amount of horrible shovelware being released via the greenlight floodgates. "Just get a refund if its so shit" they would say
Third, it somewhat discourages their customers from buying discounted steam codes from third party websites like GMG and Nuuvem (since those are not refundable). "Is it really worth saving $5 on a game if you can't refund it if it turns out to be shit?"
A number of shitty indie devs kicked up a fuss because 99% of their customers started asking for refunds once the new policy came in, so they couldn't make money anymore. Not many of them realized the core problem was actually "99% of my customers are unhappy with my game, but just couldn't do anything about it til now".
It's worth noting that these are the developers which churn out the masses of shitty shovelware games which clog the marketplace's lower depths. These are games practically nobody has ever heard of.
>>315302671 It's probably a tranny. We're talking "indie" devs that make "art" after all.
>>315302775 99% of Steam games need the client open and will not run if the game is not in your account. You'd still need a cracked exe. Buying, copying the game elsewhere then refunding is stupid, inconvenient and not guaranteed to work. That's why nobody does it when you can just torrent the whole thing.
>>315302720 >Indies people "have heard of" as you put it in general make games worth owning, so people don't refund their shit
This doesn't even involve the relatively famous walking sim people though. Fullbright aren't bitching. The Chinese Room aren't bitching. Those Stanley Parable guys aren't bitching. Hell, one of them released a walking sim this year that by all accounts has sold really well.
My issue with this "lel indies losing their minds" meme is that it consists of one (apparently) vaguely famous girl and a tonne of people literally no one has ever heard of. You faggots spam this so much you'd think Phil Fish had come back specifically to bitch the policy out.
Not a bad deal. I returned Sonic Lost World last night. Not because the game wouldn't run, but because about two hours in they introduced bullshit mechanics. Let's make Sonic a snowball, and make him skate! Now let's bounce on clouds! Wasn't that fun? Now use this color power to bounce along with the music!
Anything that helps to blow the fuck out of developers that think they can release garbage and rake in cash I'm in favor of.
Steam refunds are literally a non-issue if your game is good. You'll get some refunds from people who don't like the game or say that it isn't for them, but if your game is good those people will be a vast minority.
The only legitimate negative concern about steam refunds are the fact that indie devs could possibly be hurt by it.
However, even this argument wears thin: >It's easier to pirate the game than buy it, play it, and refund it >steam gives their product way more exposure than it would have otherwise had so they're probably still making more money >if they care more about their bottom line than customer satisfaction, than they deserve what they get as it probably is a shitty product
>>315289217 There is literally no fucking reason not to like it. None. Unless you're a developer blatantly trying to sell a broken and shitty game and don't want consumers to have protection from you.l
>>315289217 I think it's nothing but a good thing. It was also beautifully timed around the release of two busted ass PC ports (MKX and Arkham Knight) Both of which gave a perfect example of exactly how good of an idea it was.
>>315289217 It's a good start. In yurop, or at least my country, we have laws that dictate a consumer has a 2-week cooldown period after making an online purchase, in which he may return the product without reason. I think it should hold for digital goods as well, though I understand that's can be very complicated. Not my problem though.
>>315306892 When will those shitlords decide to maybe be inclusive for once and offer some trans* kerbal representation? I swear to science if they don't give the all trans* kerbals the badass trait I'm going to trigger all over my keyboard.
>>315307079 Stop. Everybody knows that they're goofy, oversensitive, censorship happy pricks. They're not, however, an all encompassing boogeyman out to destroy everything you love. Because it's not like they have any actual power or influence over anything outside of their bubble.
>>315289217 I like the implementation and it's a good idea. I just wish Steam was more lenient on their policy. I haven't been able to get a successful refund on a game that's either over 2 weeks old in my library or I have more than 2 hours on it.
Sucks because there are games in my library that I haven't touched a single time, or I literally can't play them at all whatsoever.
>Most universities, and virtually all sexual assault "tribunals" on campus. >the entire implementation of Title IX in the US in the past decade. >basically the entire NBC network. >Multiple congresspersons, particularly a congresswoman who's practically on a first name basis with Sarkesian and Quinn. >the Prime Minister of Canada >pretty much anything West or North of Poland in the Eurozone >anything in the UN pertaining to "cyber crime" >Wikipedia - the (unfortunately) go to source for most people for any quick research, including most news agencies. >Google >the Silicon Valley in general >"it's not like they have any actual power or influence over anything outside their bubble"
Refunds should have implemented from word go. And I think they should just have set-in-stone conditions and automate the process. Having each individual claim analyzed by a person makes things inconsistent as fuck. I've seen people getting $60 games refunded when their playtime is way over the "maximum" but I tried to refund a $6 I genuinely didn't like, had less than 2 hours play time, but I bought it long before refunds were a thing so it still got rejected and now it will rot in my library forever.
Good for a lot of people who use it legitimately, but as we've seen there's also going to be abuse. It's like social services for the government; you can't keep out all the bad eggs who find cracks in the system, but in general its a positive change.
Bought an expansion for a game and didn't like it so I tried to get a refund. They denied me twice because my hours were in the game were over 2. Which was fucking bullshit because when I bought the expansion it automatically used the game time I had already racked up in the base game.
They still won't refund it despite my weekly attempts.
Go ahead and search "campus rape tribunal" and see what procedures come up. It certainly doesn't correlate with due process.
If you have ever been to college in the past few years, you probably took some "Title IX training and how it redefines the notions of consent and sexual assault, and how its considered more feasible that a man would be raped by another man than ever by the "meek" and unprivileged sex that is woman.
Watch any NBC affiliated news network for like fucking five minutes.
Search the terms "Sarkesian Quinn Congresswoman" and maybe even include "Gamergate"
Search "Prime Minister of Canada Gamergate"
Crawl out of that rock you've been living under in the past decade in regards to Eurokek politics. The Syrian Refugee crisis. The "asian" (paki) rape gangs and how they were handled. Sweden, in it's entirety.
Again, search anything "United Nations" and either "GamerGate" "Cybercrime" and/or "Online Harassment"
I shouldn't even have to entertain explaining Wikipedia, but try looking for an old 2010 archive of the Wikipedia entry of "Cultural Marxism" and then try to search that term on current Wikipedia.
Google and the Silicon Valley would be an essay of shit to regurgitate to you that a cursory search would also reveal.
>See a game I played an early alpha of 3 years ago >Take the plunge because I have a little extra money in my bank account >It's still in early access but I figure they could have made some progress in 3 years time >It's very nearly the same game >Play for a hour or two >Spend the rest of the time alt-tabbed on the wiki trying to figure out what's new >Check the forums >Features they've promised years ago are still not implemented >Rack up 5 hours of game time just trying to figure out why the game is in such a poor state >Ask for a refund, choose "other reason" and explain my situation in paragraph or so >Automated response. "Games with more than 2 hours of play time are not eligible." Welp. Also, guess the game.
Couldn't a company just either make it so that the first two hours are really enjoyable ( so it uses up the refund time) or make the game progress at a slower pace so you'd need to put a few hours in to get somewhere?
>>315311802 >SJW's DOESN'T REAL >counter-claim >WHERES THE PROOF >sources >LOL WHO CARES
M8 I'm not even the guy you were talking to, I was just pointing out you sound like some colossal faggot who needs to stop bursting an artery at the first mention of SJW and should probably go play some video games.
Its okay. I think a lot of people abuse it but I'm glad its there and its not a whole lot different from returning games to a store in some ways. Its useful as it encourages people to try new things out since they now have less to lose (you can just get a refund if you don't like it, and 2 hours should be a good amount of time to determine if you like a game or not). Its also helpful for people who make mistakes on purchases thinking they'll like something, or maybe its good for people who make purchases and then find that a game doesn't run properly, either because of their hardware or because of shitty optimization/a shitty port, etc.
The only game I've ever refunded is LISA, and I still kind of want to play it despite doing that. The game was just too depressing for me and I wanted to get a refund so I could get a better game for the same price. too bad I didn't get my refund until after the Halloween sale ended. >>315289408 >stealing games >stealing indie games
>>315289217 >Buy arkham knight >Cool game, experienced NONE of the graphic or freezing problems everyone else seems to have. >played the whole story did all the story missions, inc the dlc. 100% >MFW wb is offering refund for the faggots who couldn't get it to run smooth. >MFW i submitted a refund because i`ve played it all and not likely gonna play it again. >MFW my refund is accepted and i receive the all of my shekels back to my account for a game i completed and had fun playing.
>>315313267 Friend, the reason people are just posting memes at you is because they got bored of these arguments about a year ago.
You are in a thread about steam refunds. A thread about a fairly recently integrated policy by a popular game distributor. People literally just want to talk about that. They have no interest in your unrelated shit. Take it somewhere else.
Game dev here. I love refunds. People can pirate the game anyhow. Those who are determined to get shit for free will do so. What Valve has done is save me the effort of creating a demo. The pre-refund period is essentially a demo. As a bonus a bunch of dumbasses trying to abuse the system accidentally go over time. Free money.
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