>>315369080 >Create the most vainglorious bimbo in Blizzard history >Plan to make her fodder in Cata >Results in Azshara surviving into 2016+ because entire playerbase of WoW is allergic to underwater combat
I don't think there is a luckier villain in the history of Blizzard.
half the country needs to wage war while the other half needs to pretend they totally don't want war in order for them to wage war but also not have everyone think they are the warmongering dicks they are.
>>315369143 I'm not sure if 40k would be possible on a TV budget. If you were going to do 30k era then a TV series would be the only way you could cram all that information into the audience's heads.
I think 40k could work great as a movie, however they'd need to find a good script, and they'd have to accept that 2 hours is only long enough to give the audience a snap shot into the universe. Like, follow the misadventures of a small group of characters fighting in one particular battle and have it take place over the course over a short period of time. There are already lots of movies from Event Horizon to Starship Troopers that are evocative of 40k.
It doesn't need to be Lord of the Rings in space-- it just needs to be a great sci-fi movie. And at any rate they'd better get started on it soon, or else Blizzard is going to beat them to it with a Starcraft movie.
Also, making the movie entirely about spess mehreenz would probably be a bad choice. Space Marines could certainly be in it, but they should focus on the Imperial Guard since they offer a viewpoint into that world that the audience could more directly relate to than a bunch of post-human abominations of science and sorcery.
>>315370332 Illidan died, and had his factory of warglaives stolen. And he can still die later. Sylvanas is the #1 target of the playerbase and won't live past Legion because MUH CHANGE.
Meanwhile NOBODY wants to fuck with Azshara because they are all scared of getting into the water when in fact she is obviously far more of a villain than everyone else the playerbase targets with their crying.
Ah who am I kidding, they will make Azshara swim to the surface to fight on land because the whole plan of melting Northrend and flooding the whole world giving her an unstoppable advantage in TFT surely isn't as sound a plan as randomly inviting 25 murder hobos to her yard.
I swear, they should slip a part in the Warcraft movie where one guy just keeps dying and coming back and at the end it's revealed he's banging the Spirit Healer for free rezzes and therefore has control over all life and death.
>>315370547 Raid bosses are chumps who lost to 25 random fags in their own backyard with absolute advantages. Well except Death Wing, he's probably the only retard who chose to fly around and paint a giant bullseye on his ass but he was high or something.
>>315370463 Blood Elves in the horde grew on me. Northern Kingdoms and Lorderon was pretty much a post apocalyptic waste land where only a pocket of Forest Trolls and a Church where the only living things roaming about.
You're only source of Magic is gone, you're feeling the maddening itch of addiction, everyone around you is losing hope, your only Prince is gone, following some demon into god knows where. Your former allies betrayed him and the last contact you had with them was a racist But correct Nobel man.
Suddenly, the hero who gave herself trying to save your nine thousand year old city comes back and tells you all about how things have changed, the Orcs are building a city on the other side of the world with a race of gaint cow people and a tribe of Jungle Trolls, battling the very humans that betrayed you. Why try a human anyway?
You're surrounded by undead, your only hope would be trying to gain trust with the forest trolls and take back the forests both your people loved.
Fuck that, join the Horde til your Prince comes back with something that will save your race. Then you'll be just of powerful as before and have no need for allies.
>>315371136 Technically speaking, Arthas didn't die from the 25 random people alone. Lore-wise, you had a whole army with you invading the citadel from every side and up on Artha's throne there were a bunch of heroes and high level ranking paladins during the battle and even then, they barely survived.
But, you know, technical limitations and all that trash.
>>315371071 They should have just not kept the Scourge and wiped them out. That non-sense about the Scourge overrunning the world is bullshit when they can't even reach the rest of the world in the first place. There's only a limited number of floating necropolises and not even 10% of them can swim. The flying fuck are they gonna do? Make a giant summoning circle and bring Ainz Ooal Gown in?
They could easily have gone full Pirates of the Caribbean and had them simply enough walk or some shit.
Secondly, there exist Scourge ships, and considering these undead bastards have shown themselves pretty clever in the past (in terms of engineering), there is no reason they could not develop forms of travel.
This one's a little harder to refute. I don't understand the entire concept of Arthas holding some leash on the Scourge. The way I understood it, he WAS throwing everything he had against the Crusade. And if not, why wouldn't he?
>>315370915 But see Dredd. Dredd is just one random shit show Dredd got into and thats why it worked. A contained story. I think he meant that with a small story and little relevance it would make a good film. The writers dont have to worry about hurting muh lore while also making a great film.
>>315371558 >The way I understood it, he WAS throwing everything he had against the Crusade. And if not, why wouldn't he?
Exactly. I think they tried to play "oh Arthas had totally a sweet subconscious trying to hold back his evil self" card and it really failed to make any kind of sense when considering his actions and thoughts to himself.
>>315370706 Introduce it like just any other Si-Fi with a group of explores on a ship traveling back to Earth after space travel suddenly becomes optimal again, hoping to find life or at least recolonize it after the last images that was shown of it was it being a ball of dust.
A crew of quirky characters and one of them suddenly acts a little stranger, like something is corrupting him, murders happen, spooky shit happens, lots of questions about the sanity of man, how space is just scary as shit. so on.
Last scene is the hero being being cornered by the insane crew member, insane person screams "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD"
Suddenly the whole threatre blows up HOLY SHIT IT WAS A 40K MOVIE ALL ALONG.
Last scene is an Imperial Ship contacting the Exploration Ship and Thunder Warriors bordering it.
>>315371257 It was still his backyard. The fact that a legendary figure could lose in their very own backyard when they had a thousand chances to win before the enemy even reaches him sitting on his toilet waiting is retarded.
I know Blizzard went all out and even made bullshit like DURR I WAS ONLY PRETENDING but the entire gameplay of WoW as an MMO already makes any figure you are able to kill turn into a retard by proxy.
Best case example, Garrosh. Let's compare SoO in an MMO format and a RTS format
>MMO requires 25 faggots helped by tons of fodder npcs to slowly descend into the depths of RFC and shit battling past grueling traps and legions of enemies just so you can gangbang Garrosh which makes said enemies look like shit while making you 25 heroes look like walking Gary Stus culminating in finishing off Garrosh but having the Horde/Alliance suffer heavy losses in the Siege in exchange for 25 people getting better gear than they had before because mysteriously Dindu Nuffins make better weapons and armor than gods so long it's their turn to get wacked >RTS commander would just nuke the area with mana bombs for poetic justice from outside the city and collapse the cavern on top of Garrosh burying his ass with thousands of tons of solid bedrock and collateral damages only include enemy forces and none of your own, which is all that matters because Durotar is a piece of shit anyways and they can relocate anywhere else within the Barrens if they wanna be masochists
>>315371727 No, he wasn't murdered, he died in battle by his...uh....kind of son. And he actually died, he didn't get resurrected. His body is dead, his soul is just forcibly stuck in his rotting corpse to guide humanity's spaceships.
>>315371558 How the fuck can they do that when losing control of the Scourge means every one of them goes crazy? They aren't some collective organization once Arthas dies, they just go bonkers. Even assuming some of them enter the sea and go Pirates style, one of them will definitely aggro a whale and that's the end of that.
Where does this "Scourge goes crazy" theory even come from?
Firstly, there are lots of leaders in the Scourge, who are able to make military decisions without Arthas' direct approval.
I'm guessing it's just "how necromancy works", but that's pretty obviously contradicted by the Death Knights. And yes, I know they "found their souls" or "fought and obtained their freedom" or some pseudo-shit, but Christ have mercy.
>>315372420 Nah, the orcs are on a dying world now (not their fault either) and happen to get a chance at life on Azeroth. But the the humans will try and slaughter them without negotiations. So they will reluctantly fight back.
>>315372169 For every one competent scourge there's 1000 mindless corpse who only knows pains and slaughter. Those 'intact' undead are constantly battling going mad themselves, the Forsaken deal with this daily.
There was close to hundred thousand people in Strathome alone when Arthas culled it, the settlers in Northend, and the possible millions of Nerubians. That is a LOT of undead things that just want to kill things
>>315372015 >>315372038 they ARE demon infused aliens they lose the first invasion under blackhand because the thought it would be easy then get their shit together after doomhammer kills blackhand. its only durotan who is a dindu
But what, Arthas somehow had control over all of them while not a single Lich or Dreadlord could ever put together a union-like thing and gain control?
Honestly, this debate is a little pointless. It was never made 100% how Arthas kept them under his control anyway, so there's nothing but guesswork as to why other undead can't grasp whatever Arthas did.
Actually, small elite force didnt survive encounter with Arthas. They got oneshoted in the end and only deus ex machina from Tirion saved them from being ressurected as undead generals. Lich King is the only boss that kills the players, wining the battle but loosing the war because of tirion plot device
>>315372714 Which is still a red herring in terms of plot. Arthas still sat on his ass for half a decade and slept, and after waking up was completely ineffectual at doing anything and was overrun by the good guys IN HIS OWN FUCKING FORTRESS.
And that excuse to put whoever that guy was in the throne was literally retarded. Mindless skellingtons are a better enemy than organized skellingtons no matter which way you slice it.
>>315372795 I will never understand why American culture forces polarization just because of how their shitty politics work. It's like forcing everyone to choose between black and white, even though you have the entire rainbow spectrum available.
>>315372795 i dont have any reason to believe that yes metzen is a hack and wows story is shit but lothar and kadgar are good characters medivh will be a bad guy, so will most of the warlords, only durotan and maybe doomhammer plus their families will be good guys. the only possiblity i see they go the dindu road is if they go all 'demons did that shit' but most character arcs of the orcs happen in the second war when guldan betrays them the story is already told, we know what happens, they cant retcon everything
>>315372961 Warcraft 3: >starts as a prince >goes on a crusade against the undead >culls an entire city >continues crusade to a different continent >gets a magic sword >reks his opponent but becomes corrupted by the sword >gets home and fucks up an entire kingdom >kills his former mentor and builds up the undead >fucks elves' shit up >is an accessory to nearly destroying azeroth >gets back to northrend, reking elves and humies on the way >pushes illidan's shit in >puts on the rest of the lich king's armor
WoW: >sleeps for 4 years >launches an "attack" on stormwind that does nothing >taunts the combined forces of the horde and the alliance multiple times >gets murdered in his own fortress
>>315373197 Honestly? It's because media and entertainment have been America's biggest export for the last 100 years. The rest of the world is a good 10 years behind us in that regard, and don't worship it as much as us.
We consume the most media, we pump out ten sitcoms every month while Finland is still watching Friends reruns, sticking to what they like. American entertainment changes by the week with what is popular and relevant. The Black and White style has really tired itself out with Comic books, old Si-fi and fantasy. Americans want character, not just a villain.
We also like the idea that everyone has good in them. American's are really prone to act on emotion rather then anything else.
>>315372961 Im not talking this is all ok in terms of plot. But still:
Arthas controls undead like overmind zerg swarm. That lich armor with orh shaman soul imprisoned.
Without control they go all FUCKFUCKFUCK like... zerg on aiur?
On the begining of Wotlk, we see besiegd Ally and horde fortress. Ofc noble players do the thing like one man army.
Plot says that Argent Crusade cant win a land battle and go beyond wrathgate (where they fail because forsaken) and using breach near dalaran pays off in heavy casualties. Only ebon blade managed to inflitrate shadow vault and estabilish base there. All oeprations on ICC was made using flying ships (question: why sindragosa and frost wing didnt just fuck them already in aerial combat. Next question is when crusaders deployed full army just behind ICC gate, why Arthas didnt command his forces from horror gate to turn back and fuck them. They were without support from any side, only from sky.
In the end, happy players breached the gate, came after Arthas and then LOL ITS JUST AS PLANNED ALL ALONG. From one side, frostmourne contains all of the souls so he can ressurect fallen raid boss again, but if he has the souls, how death knight broke absolutely free from his will (maybe dead for DK means being mind controlled again). That "plan fool" jusr renders all encounter with Drakuru and that Ymirion King(that boss requiring 3 ppl in leveling zone, i forgot his name. Not that boss from instance) useless and stupid.
So, still plot was butchered with absurd shit maybe just to allow players to do something and play the game and with this we have shis like 25 random players kills Archimonde
>>315373761 >Without control they go all FUCKFUCKFUCK like... zerg on aiur? Still not giving me a reason to think there's any justification in the "but they're SO FERAL MAN" argument.
If you were given the choice to fight 100,000 roman legionaires, or 100,000 fucking savages who would just randomly come at you a few to a few hundred at a time, you'd pick the savages every time.
Unless you want to give the dumbass excuse of "he was holding them back", to which I say just look at what happened before he even turned completely into the Lich King. He was actively fucking everyone's shit up left and right.
>>315370915 >>315370706 >>315369143 You couldn't do a 40k film. It's too big and too long. You'd have to split that shit up into multiple films to cover everything. Like, 10 of them. So kinda pointless.
What you COULD do, is something like this:
>Planet is attacked by, lets say, Orks >Planet is ravaged, but Imperium win >A teenager survives and wants revenge, so joins IG >Gets dropped into a counter-attack against Orks and somehow survives >Joins up with a Veteran Squad, lead by none other than Sean Bean >They go on a mission and blow something up and defeat the Orks >Celebrations! >Then Chaos Pirates arrive to take the planet for a ritual >Protag and Sean Beans squad fight back and basically get owned >all looks like it's gone to shit then the Space Marines arrive and they're like "wow so cool" >While Chaos fights Space Marines, the squad goes to the ritual site >Sean Bean gets killed dueling a Chaos Pysker >Protag then bombs the ritual area with a demo charge (or something similar) >gets KO'd >Awakens to Space Marines finishing off the dead and capturing those who need to be >Protag gets lifted up by Space Marine, who says nothing and walks away >Protag becomes leader of squad and big funeral for Sean Bean
Then you do one about Space Marines doing something similar.
>movie could've been a movie about Arthas' downfall >glad you could make it uther >cliche prince saving little timmy >slowly becomes obsess with malganis durng his adventure >kill them before they become zombies >burn the ships no one escapes
>>315374336 Do Spess Mehreens even care about normies? I don't know anything about WH40K but I guess I had the mental image of them hating normal humans and thinking they were faggots who don't praise the Emperor enough or some nonsense.
>>315374336 I want to see Eldar fiction media where they actually take off their masks and you can see their master race good looks. Why is it anyway that they wear masks, are they afraid that they'll get turned on, start fucking and turn into Slaanesh' slaves?
>>315374724 Yes and no, a lot of Astartes give huge fucks about the little guy. At some point a lot of them where little guys. Some don't even consider you worth saving or even bothering using you as a meat shield. Really depends of the chapter.
Funnily enough, you're more likely to be treated like a human being by Chaos then most Chapters.
>>315374219 >Making up excuses to justify shitty game design is legit cause it's canon
It would have been far more epic if Arthas actually baited you in and tried to overwhelm you with a trap, resulting in you escaping due to outside allies bombarding your location opening up an escape route at the cost of Tirion's death while you escape with the Ashbringer and then shit happens resulting in a plains battle where Arthas rides Invincible instead of making it go poof like every other mount and going dynasty warrior on your asses.
That would be an actual raid boss worthy fight. Not playing DDR in the ice throne.
>>315371256 Blood Elves HATE Trolls and Undead. It doesn't even matter if Horde Trolls are different, they're flat out racist against Trolls for fucking up their trees and people so much. The Undead, ESPECIALLY those from Lordaeron, are the reason why there's a giant gaping black asshole in their city.
It's like you know nothing of Warcraft lore.
In fact, give me ONE reason pre-WoW lore why the Blood Elves couldn't rejoin the Alliance. Only Garithos gave them shit and 10,000 High Elves aren't going to stop the millions of Blood Elves from joining. And dirty magic you say? Why the hell are there Warlocks in the Alliance then?
>>315375327 The Alliance wanted your last Royal dead, who is giving up everything to find you a new source of magic, who was saved by a race you once thought vile and monstrous, the Naga.
If these Naga can be helpful, why can't other monstrous races be? Why would you hate people who had no control over what they did, most of all people who are being lead by your former Ranger Lord who are fighting the undead who sacked your city.
It was human who raised an undead army to take your city and nearly wipe out your race. It was a human who damned your Prince and forced you to ally your self with people who never once thought twice about.
>>315375387 >giving a shit about lore when lore has always catered to the raid design and not the other way around
Holy shit talk about being retarded. Did your ancestor put his cart before the horse every time he made a trip? No shit it would require a retcon, something which anyone with a working brain would welcome because WoW lore is garbage that retcons itself regularly.
>>315375592 >Ah, so he was filler who did nothing vanilla If by filler you mean he wasn't running around leveling, slaying monsters and saving the world, because that's your job not his, then yes.
If you mean the person who assisted the defense of Stormwind and commanded the Armies in the assault of Northrend and eventually the Wrathgate, kept alive by the dragon aspects and resisted the torture of the lich king after being the most loyal solider of the Alliance and also a paladin like Tirion, to sacrifice himself to save Azeroth and his kingdom, then yes.
Literally full of shit. The story in WoW has always revolved around dungeon designs. Did you really think they wrote the story for quest hubs and shit to conveniently make you run around like you were in a themepark THEN create the quests?
This is what you are implying. And I can tell that since you just added a random MUH OPINION MUH EXPERIENCE at the end for no reason other than to try and add some weight to your post either you're shit posting or a blizzdrone.
Just because you enjoy something that's bad doesn't mean it's forbidden to admit it's bad. You gonna shill for your favorite soda or beer just because you like drinking it and say it's not unhealthy? Cause that's what you're doing right now.
>>315370547 I was mostly thinking that at the end of the frozen throne he is the only power that can resist the burning legion and having a geniunely bad faction that is not just a bunch of dindus would be nice
>>315371256 IMHO instead of adding pandas they could have added naga and made BE + Naga their own group
>>315376230 this Nelfs were actually intersting whats with men being nearly feral druids and women crazy day-to-day fighters
>>315370463 Both the Forsaken and Blood Elves got betrayed by the Alliance, so it makes sense for them to join the Horde and also makes sense for Thrall to accept them since his idea of Horde is a group of nations that would otherwise be alone and against everyone. Night elves weren't savages and attacked only if you fucked up their forests, and after Hyjal, it's not that unbelievable for them to join Alliance. Turning Illidan and Arthas into raid bosses sucks though.
>>315375327 >The Undead, ESPECIALLY those from Lordaeron, are the reason why there's a giant gaping black asshole in their city. It's like there are two factions of Undead both opposed to each other. It's like they're allied to the faction of undead that actively fights against the other faction that laid waste to their homeland and that is led on by a former member of their race. It's like you're a massive retard.
>>315376403 I cant tell if you're shitposting or you actually think the quests about getting 15 worg tails is legit lore. Some of those are story quests, but they work well with the pre-wow lore.
I have honestly no idea what you're implying other than an MMORPG has aspects to it that are not as important, such as side quests, and then major points that follow the flow of the lore.
The lich king fight was done that way for a reason, it fit the lore, and if you didnt enjoy the boss fight then go play other bosses, raids, level something else it's an MMORPG, you don't have to like every aspect.
>>315379031 I don't feel like one-liners is the right call, warcraft has always had this kind of absurdism on everything. Which is sadly to say completely absent here. I feel that if we will ever see goblins or gnomes they will be reduced to jar jar binks in terms of comedy.
>>315379247 >I don't feel like one-liners is the right call, warcraft has always had this kind of absurdism on everything But there has also been one liners, but most of Blizzard humor tends to be poking fun at themselves.
>>315369143 >tv series I hope you realize that every tv series ever made is too focused on talking because talking is easy to film and doesn't require a lot of budget. Look at GoT or Vikings, even though both are popular and have a good spending budget they focus on TALK, TALK, TALK, ROMANCE, FRIENDSHIP, BROKEN ROMANCE, NEW ROMANCE, TALK. I'm not even going to mention the plastic looking outfits being used for whatever reason, or skirmishes that are called battles and last around 10 minutes if you cut out someone thinking about the past, someone talking and all the slow motion focused on lead's face to show us how the "battle" is going.
Then there's that thing where they make last 5 minutes of the episode interesting so you're looking forward to the next one, but the next episode is fucking boring for 40 minutes until those last 5 mins come again.
Basically 40k doesn't work unless there's bloodshed and carnage every minute, and tv series can't deliver this because main aspect is drama. In 40k an Imperial Soldier whining is going to get a bolter round through his skull so he can be an example.
>this thread >"man wow lore is gonna get fucking destroyed by this movie" >"yep for sure" >"YEAH BUT WHAT IF 40K WERE MADE INTO A MOVIE/TV SHOW/VIDEO GAME/BOOK/MUSIC VIDEO/MICROWAVE DINNER GUYS?!?!?!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
>>315377740 >>315377949 The Forsaken allied with the Alliance and then immediately the Forsaken betrayed the Alliance.
Also to make it clear, the Alliance had rightful claim to the land as the soldiers were literally fighting to reclaim their home while the Foresaken are led by a [former] Elf who is going for a power grab to make herself strong.
The fact that the Horde would accept the Forsaken is straight up idiotic (especially sense a person like Sylvannis would hate the Orcs MORE than she hates Humans)
The Blood Elves would also hate the Orcs more as the Orcs tried to destroy the Elves homeland where the Alliance at leads tried [poorly] to defend it. Not to mention the Alliance is allied with the Night Elves and still has High Elves in their society. The fact that those 2 factions join the Horde are both retarded.
>>315381903 >Also to make it clear, the Alliance had rightful claim to the land as the soldiers were literally fighting to reclaim their home while the Foresaken are led by a [former] Elf who is going for a power grab to make herself strong. How does the alliance have rightful claim to the land when the Forsaken are the people who lived on the land while they where alive?
They'll claim "Oh we took artistic license" Marvel has already shown that "artistic license" means you've fucked up everything and that you should have just gone as close as humanly possible to the original as you can.
LK was but arthas was merely a fucci boy for LK. He ran in every trap set up by the LK like a puppet he was. Shame neo blizzard can't write good storys and the wow audience only wanted Arthas while in fact he was a pretty boring character.
>>315375041 First off, the Eldar are creepy looking ayy lmaos, despite fanartists often drawing them as simply attractive looking humans. Secondly, and more importantly, the masks the Eldar wear are an important part of their ritualized war personas they take upon themselves when they go to war, so that their minds won't be tainted by the violence and bloodlust they experience during warfare.
>>315383535 Anon how thick are you >The Forsaken are the people of Lorderan who lived there before the scourge outbreak, they now continue living on the land they lived while they were alive but not as undead. And they got rid of the demons in their ranks years ago.
>wanting a tv series or movie focused around Spess Mareens
Why? They are literally boring incarnated, no emotions, aside from like space wolves. I tried some of the books and it's just 'Yes brother Marciius' 'Praise the emperor' /kills 30 orks without taking a scratch. Fun for games not for emotionally engaging storytelling
Eisenhorn is a ready made film or tv series, and covers a lot of 40k in a digestible way, with actual humans that have feelings that are comparable to 21st ones.
>>315375729 >He couldn't do that after his hordes of undeads had killed everything >We had to be alive for this all to go down for some reason >??? No anon, it's fucking retarded and so are you for trying to defend that shit.
>>315383689 They are also made up of Elves. You may noticed their leader is an Elf.
Most of the original Forsaken were Elves.
Meanwhile the Alliance consist of people from Lorderan.
Also my mistake on Jaina, I forgot. You may notice in WC3 she introduces herself as leader of "the Survivors of Lorderan" which is what I meant when I said "her people"
So yes, the people who are still alive and used to live in Lorderan along with the faction that Lorderan was part of has far more claim then a faction that was mostly undead Elves led by an Elf and a Demon with multiple Undead Elves like Banshees in positions of power (this is how it was at the end of WC3, start of WoW. If it is different now I have no idea sense I dont play)
>>315376947 Retcons, the dwarves didn't join the conflict until War2 if memory serves, and even then they didn't have rifles but just strapped themselves with explosives (gnomes built the flying machines) or rode griffons.
>>315384393 Except they're not, the majority of forsaken was always composed of banshees which were elves, most of the Lorderon undead were controlled by the dreadlords and subsequently killed by the forsaken armies of possessed savages and other undead. Varimathras' entire force was destroyed/possessed and only he himself survived by offering himself up as an informant on his fellow dreadlords.
Get THAT through your thick skull you complete imbecile.
Replay WC3. The Forsaken were originally undead Elves and demons Sylvanis used for a power grab to make herself into a ruler of a small kingdom she had no claim over while the STILL LIVING people who DID have a claimed she murdered (after saying she would get them their homes back) not to mention the countless Lorderan soldiers and civilians who survived by fleeing to Darlaaran or with Jaina.
>>315384576 >During the Third War, the once-glorious capital of Lordaeron, Capital City, was decimated by a Scourge army under the command of Prince Arthas Menethil. Death offered no escape for the scores of humans killed during the Lich King's campaign to scour the living from Lordaeron. Instead, the kingdom’s fallen were risen into undeath as Scourge minions and forced to wage an unholy war against everything and everyone that they once held dear
The first two were really good, after that quality varies wildly. Mechanicum, Legion and A Thousand Sons were good book in their own rights. Although, it's better to just compare WH books with other WH books, because they can't hold shit against Iain Banks or Asimov , especialy Asimov since more than half of 40K is ripped straight from it's Foundation cycle. There's only one book in all of 40K that has any real litteral value : The Inquisition War by Ian Watson.
>>315385078 Yes thank you for the history of the Undead Scourge. How does that change the fact that the original memebers of the Forsaken were undead Elves and Demons and the still living residents of Lorderan are serving the Alliance by fleeing to Darlaan or Theramore and they want their homes back?
>>315385078 Okay, now read the post you quoted, which describes >Those undead were slaughtered/possessed by the banshee(elves) forces of the forsaken So be a dear and kill yourself, because someone so utterly incapable of comprehending simple language has no business living.
>>315385239 Holy crap how do I keep spelling Lordaeron wrong.
>>315385269 The reason this discussion started was because I mentioned that at the end of WC3, very start of WoW the Forsaken had less claim to Lordaeron because they were mostly undead Elves as opposed to the Alliance who owned the land. Now in current day WoW that maybe different but we were not talking about current day WoW, we are talking about the original founders of the Forsaken.
>>315385269 Except as I already told you, the Lordaeron undead that were broken free from the scourge were controlled by the dreadlords and the forsaken killed and possessed them all.
Get it through your thick fucking skull anon >Undead break free from the Lich King >Some are retained and commanded by Arthas >Elven undead are loyal to Sylvanas >Lordaeron undead get dominated/controlled by the dreadlords
Then the "civil war" happens, Sylvanas' (elven) undead destroy the dreadlords' (Lordaeron) undead and that's the end of that story.
>>315385239 Theramore has nothing to do with Lordaeron, it's all Kul Tiras, and the original members of the Forsaken is everyone who broke free from the lich king. That includes all the no named units you used to complete the campaign. >>315385283 Then where the fuck did Arthas get the army that he needed to invade Silvermoon? If everyone was raised by banshees instead of the plague >>315385443 Nobody in the fucking alliance owns Lordaeron, the people who owns Lordaeron are either part of the Forsaken or in the Argent or Scarlet factions. And even they are in the minority compared to how many dead people from Lordaeron are in the Forsaken
>>315386168 Dude replay Warcraft 3. Everything you said is wrong.
Theramore was founded by Jaina Proudmoore who (and I am quoting her) "Leader of the survivors of Lordaeron." This means a large portion of the people living on Theramore island are the people or Lordaeron.
Arthas army came from the army he raised while in Lordaeron which he took and destroyed Silvermoon. He then raised the Elves he just killed and placed them under Sylvannis command because he enjoyed Irony (stated in WC3 and TFT)
Lordaeron is a member of the Alliance so first off yes they DO own Lordaeron. Second the people or Lordaeron AT THE TIME OF THE START OF WOW AND THE END OF WC3 are either living in Theramore Island or serving the Alliance in Darlaaran (both stated clearly in TFT) while the Forsaken is made up of mostly undead elves and demons.
Living people of Lordaeron who serve the Alliance have a greater claim over undead Elves who took it by force.
Can anyone explain why at the start of vanilla WoW there is a strong human presence on Azeroth? This is confusing, because this is the history of humans in WC3: >Rule over all of Azeroth along with dwarves, elves, gnomes >Undead come and fuck shit up >Small group of humans escape under the command of Jaina Proudmoore >Human army goes to Northrend >Human army dies and returns as undead, fucking remaining humans' shit up even more >Demons come and fuck the rest of the humans' shit up >Somehow there are still humans alive >Sylvanas finishes fucking up humans' shit
How the fuck are there still any humans left at all? Let alone enough to have a functioning kingdom, and let alone that functioning kingdom to be the core of the, somehow still active, Alliance. Is there any explanation at all?
>>315386568 >Lordaeron is a member of the Alliance so first off yes they DO own Lordaeron What you are saying is the equivalent of someone calming that the US owns every NATO member state simple because they are members of NATO. >while the Forsaken is made up of mostly undead elves and demons Well not any more they aren't, they are made up of mostly dead people from Lordaeron and they always were, and there was only one fucking demon in their entire ranks.
>>315386682 Except the survivors are serving the Alliance, and Lordaeron is a member of the Alliance so Lordaeron is simply occupied land and the Alliance is fighting to retake its territory. All of a suddenly undead Elves come from no where and claim the land belongs to Sylvannis. Sylvannis is the leader of the undead. Also, the ghouls being used are suppose to be a undead elves.
>>315386834 No, it is like saying that if in WW2, the Soviets somehow pushed clear through Germany and "liberated" parts of France (work with this Alternate history here) the allied powers would have a greater claim over those lands then the Soviets because the Allied powers consist of the Free French.
And again. We are talking about the end of WC3 and start of WoW when the Forsaken consist of mostly Undead Elves (the Undead Sylvannis commanded) and demons. In current WoW it maybe different but we dont care about current WoW, we care about the time between WC3 and the start of vanilla WoW.
>>315387292 Well if elves and demons were in such a majority in vanilla WoW then why was there only a handful of elfes and one demon? And I'm going to repeat that last one because you keep thinking that there was more then one demon in the Forsaken. But you are wrong, because there was only one demon. Get it, only one demon.
Have I made myself clear that there was only one demon in the forsaken?
>>315387501 Saving the human race in that part of the world >>315387617 >Kingdom of Gilneas refuses to help out during these events because of the worgen curse is creeping in and shuts its gates to stop the scourge from rolling over it. Thats wrong, Gilneas built the wall short after the second war (Warcraft 2). >Kingdom of Stormwind is still feeling the effects of the first and second war and cannot lend aid to Lordaeron. No they had rebuilt at that point but Onyxia was having her way in the side so she convinced the house of noble to not send aid.
>>315387292 >and Lordaeron is a member of the Alliance Lordaeron as a political entity stopped existing when Arthas destroyed the kingdom and murdered the political leader. We are talking about the region of Lordaeron, and yeah, the survivors of the invasion have no more claim over it than the thinking, rational deceased of it.
>>315387795 >>315387617 So wait, after Stormwind gets its shit kicked in by the orcs and Lordaeron has to step in to help them take it back, Stormwind sees that Lordaeron is being eaten alive by undead that will definitely not stop after they're done there, and they do nothing? Wow.
Also, are you seriously, SERIOUSLY telling me that the demons just never bothered to go further south? And the undead, too? They just took over the northern part of the Eastern continent and said "This is fine, this is all we need. Why should we antagonize our neighbors?" And they instead just went to Kalimdor. And Garithos' humans? Why the fuck were they still sticking around, surrounded by demons and undead, instead of going to Stormwind?
This is absolutely retarded. From everything we see in WC3, it's patently obvious that any other human kingdoms were fucked. But then they suddenly went "Oh shit, we need humans for our MMO!" and pulled Stormwind out of their collective asses, claiming that's the Kingdom of Azeroth from previous games. From the creative geniuses who brought you Undead in the Horde and Night Elves in the Alliance.
>>315388565 This is in addition to the fact that it makes NO FUCKING SENSE that Sylvanas would keep demons in her midst. Why the fuck would she? She's probably the biggest demon hater in the entire universe at that point.
>>315388858 The objective of the Scourge wasn't invading the world, it was to summon the Legion. For that they only needed the book of Medivh that was in Dalaran, so they didn't care at all about Stormwind or Khaz Modan.
Stormwind didn't help Lordaeron probably because they didn't have time? Everything from the murder of the King to the razing of Dalaran happened in a few months at most.
>>315388249 Because the game says Arthas is turning elves into undead soldiers like ghouls and Sylvannis commands nothing but Elves at the start of TFT.
>>315388432 The political entity of the Alliance wants to restore Lordaeron and it is made up of living survivors of the nation. That means the Alliance has greater claim over ELVES who claim it because they want a power base.
You know I think the mistake is Im looking at things like Gargoryles and Destroyers and Im calling them demons. This is probably a mistake on my part and if so my apologies. However I do remember Varimothras able to summon Doom Guards.
That doesnt change my original point that the Forsaken were originally undead elves who took a land they have no claim over because they wanted a base of operations while the survivors of the place they took over are still alive and want their land back as per the end of WC3.
>This movie, directed by Bowie's son, will be inferior to the version in my head where every character is played by Jemaine Clement under a thick coat of CGI and make-up and it's directed by Rob Schneider.
Why are they still trying to make video game movies? It's not possible to make a legitimately good one.
>>315388858 >Stormwind sees that Lordaeron is being eaten alive by undead that will definitely not stop after they're done there, and they do nothing? Wow. Varian did send some supply and men to help, but like I said Onyxia was in town and causing political turmoil so Varian couldn't send much. >>315389246 During that time there was no scourge outbreak, it had been dealt with.
>>315389259 >The political entity of the Alliance wants to restore Lordaeron and it is made up of living survivors of the nation. That means the Alliance has greater claim over ELVES who claim it because they want a power base.
The Forsaken are undead, not elves, and they have both deceased elves from Silvermoon and deceased humans from Lordaeron.
The political entity of the Alliance lost any claim to Lordaeron the moment they lost it to conquest, with that in mind, both the survivors and the raised dead from Lordaeron have the same rights to it.
>However I do remember Varimothras able to summon Doom Guards.
Don't think of the units the Undead faction has in gameplay. Lore-wise, dreadlords are demons and so is Varimathras, they're a race of demons called nathrezim and they serve the Legion, not the Lich King, however, the Undead faction server only the Lich Kind, and despite being controlled by demons in the RoC campaign they get independent on TFT, that's why both Arthas and Sylvanas murder dreadlords left and right.
No, no it's not and I don't mean that from a hippy love point of view I mean that from a the war in world of warcraft is tired and pointless and only being dragged out because it's a game. Literally like the only meaningful wars in the game are going on between Nelfs and Orcs and pretty much everything and the undead.
>>315389667 Logically yes they would have some humans in the Forsaken yes I actually do agree. However most of them would have been undead Elves (please assumed every time I typed Elves, the word undead was infront. I didnt think I would need to type that)
Im going to have to disagree with the Alliance losing claim to it with conquest. But that sounds more like a matter of techincalties and sense I doubt either of us are lawyers neither of us could argue that correctly.
You are going to have trouble convincing me that a faction that has major leaders (generals, not necessarily named characters) as people from Lordaeron and the faction once controled the area have the same or less claim as a faction thats leaders are made up of people from another country.
Im willing to admit I fucked up about the demons thing.
>>315390105 >>315390069 >being irredeemably evil is one dimensional >implying it didn't cause the Alliance to fracture at key points when Perenholde sided with the Horde to spare his kingdom and open up a straight path into Lordaeron >implying the irredeemable Horde didn't fracture as well when Gul'dan turned on everyone to raid Sargeras' Tomb
You can be past the point of redemption and still be compelling.
>>315373632 Arthas slept for four years to assert domination over the Scourge, to reflect on his past, and to consume Ner'Zhul.
When he awoke, he unleashed a plague upon Azeroth that caused a huge amount of people to turn into rampaging zombies that sowed chaos through the land. He sent his forces to attack Stormwind and Orgrimmar, drawing heroes to Northrend.
He put numerous challenges before the players as they fight their way through Northrend, until they finally come to Icecrown Citadel and prove themselves as the world's greatest heroes. At this point, the Lich King reveals his weakness was merely an act, and slaughters all the players with a devastating magical attack. He tells Tirion that it was his objective to bait the best Azeroth had to offer, and then turn them into Death Knights that would lead his armies in consuming the whole world. Tirion, searching for his last resort, prays to the Holy Light to grant him strength and free him from his bonds. His wish is granted, and the Ashbringer is able to shatter Frostmourne in a brief opening. The Lich King is assaulted by the cursed spirits freed from his grasp, and Tirion resurrects the players to deal the final blow, resulting in Arthas' death.
Yet, the Helm of Domination is what truly holds the spirit of the Lich King, while Arthas was merely its vessel (similar to a soulstone in the Diablo universe). Tirion believes that he will have to be the one to serve as the jailor for the Lich King, but the desecrated Bolvar offers himself instead. In conclusion, Bolvar Fordragon becomes the new vessel for the Lich King, as his spirit is doomed to wrestle for control with the malevolent entity for all of eternity. It's a very similar tale to that of Tal-Rasha and Baal in Diablo 2.
>>315391141 Well, yeah. The demon fled to Northrend, and the leader of the Cult of the Damned got executed. There wasn't any logical reasoning as to why there would be more, it just happened that the prince went full retard.
>>315391303 Because composing a movie score is a much different thing from composing music loops for video games. It doesn't mean they won't use music from the games, it'll just be reworked so it fits into a movie better.
>>315390517 >orcs >interesting Pick one, their direction has changed and shifted more times than I care to count. Blizzard forgot there are other races in the Horde so instead of focusing on those that have different ideologies than the Orcs they change the orcs to make sure they fit in to every storyline.
>>315369143 A series wouldn't do justice for the setting, unless it's Inquisition-based stuff. That can drag along and be set on the same planet without relying on a rather small budget for big mcfuckhuge battles.
>>315374336 You can. The whole idea of the Warhammer 40k universe is that the setting is big enough for literally any kind of dumb drama or sci-fi movie to fit into it. It's why there's a gorillion Black Library books with most of them focused on the Imperium's various subfactions.
Hence suggestions such as a war drama featuring a squad of Imperial Guardsmen can work. You can make up a planet for yourself, make up a threat (even to the point of whether it's internal or external), decide how much religion, supernatural/psyker shit you want added to it, whether you want to cause an aneurysm for the average non-Warhammer 40k affiliated viewer by introducing how big and ridiculous everything is compared to that miniscule scenario that's a 2-hour long movie (even if it includes 10 years' worth of warmongering) etc etc.
You can't include everything in a movie which is based on a setting that's entirely about everything being over the top. You have to humanize it and there's plenty of opportunities and content for that.
>>315392436 Why are we suppose to believe he has been corrupted at that point in time? When would it have happened? That would actually lessen his tragedy. He was doing everything he believed was right and can be argued he WAS right. However he was so determined to stop Mel'Ganis it would put him on the path to self destruction.
The Culling is a vital story element to talking about Arthas' fall, but you are claiming that the Culling is pointless because Arthas had already fallen. You are cheapening Arthas story ignoring the fact there is no reason why he would already be corrupted. He only just started the journey of corruption, how can he be at the end already?
>>315394270 I've played everything up to wotlk. That includes the very first Warcraft, War2 and BtDP.
Still waiting to hear what part of what I said is wrong. And before you show your retardation even more, "Azeroth" has been used to refer to the continent, it was the name the Kingdom of Stormwind before they renamed it, and now it's the name of the whole 'world'. I was referring to the continent.
>Ages ago a group called the Titans came to Azeroth >They found the Old Gods >After a long war they kicked the Old God's shit in >They put life forms made of Stone/Iron on the planet and left >Old Gods cursed their creations with the Curse of Flesh, turning the iron/stone creatures into ones of flesh >One group became the Vrykul, the ancient ancestors of Humans >One became dwarves >One became the giants
No idea where the trolls, pandaren, elves, gnomes, or Tauren came from. It's rumored that Elves are the descendants of Trolls who lived close to the Well of Eternity, but both factions say that's full of shit.
>>315395001 It's true, look it up. >>315395020 A failed product by Vrykul standards. >>315395147 Titans did not put humans on Azeroth, they put Vrykul on Azeroth and Humans are failed offsprings of the Vrykul.
>>315368134 it was confirmed on twitter not too long ago that the movie will deviate from the "main universe" because it's not set in that same proper universe. there's also rumors that the WoW universe isn't the same linear universe as the Warcraft RTS.
>>315395793 exactly. i think some people have had adverse reactions to the whole multiverse setting because of how suddenly it exploded into the scene, but it's been a long time coming. the legion constantly talks about destroying other worlds, which may not just be planets. the old gods ramble on about their multidimensional existence as well (which may not necessarily imply multiple universes but multiple planes of being).
>½ Kil'jaeden because muh burning legion corruption. >Arthas the saturday morning villain. >Flying Achille's heel Jay Leno edition >Muh Orcs: "not corruption" or how I learned to yiff the panda >Muh Orcs 2: Electric boogaloo >You are not prepared! Literally no one asked for this. The theme park.
The purpose of the scourge was to kickstart a Burning Legion invasion of Azeroth by summoning Archimonde, which is accomplished. The Lich King then started planning how to free himself from The Burning Legion's control, as since The Scourge had done its job, it was expendable.
The the Burning Legion's plan was to head to Kalimdor, tap into the power of The World Tree and using it, destroy Azeroth as a world. It doesn't make sense to go south if you can just reach an objective and destroy everything with an ancient source of magic. They tried this during the War of the Ancients with The Well of Eternity and almost succeeded.
>Orc males are massive and brutish looking creatures. Weighing in at 250 to 300 pounds and standing from 6 to 7 feet in height, they are not a small race. Even orc women tend to be only a half-foot or so shorter and 50 to 100 pounds lighter than most males (and some of them are equal in stature to their male counterparts), having broad shoulders and muscular, powerful bodies >you will never be dominated by the orcs male or women And I wonder if Metzen has a fetish for the orc as a whole one of the two gender.
>>315368892 This looks like some straight to DVD shit. I don't understand, is this entire project a fucking ruse? They waited years after Warcraft was relevant to put this shit into production, they hire literally whos to direct and act, the don't go full CG even though that's about the only thing left that Blizzard can do semi-competently, BUT they do use a disgusting amount of green screen. Not to mention it's boring First War shit, but that's probably just to set up the inevitable sequel
>>315398216 >Travis Fimmel, best known for a History channel TV show >Toby Kebbell, best known as Dr. Doom in that atrocious F4 reboot or the voice of a monkey in Planet of the Apes >Duncan Jones, only known for Moon You're totally right. When you hire Oscar-caliber actors and directors like these guys, everyone should know these household names. Do you remember that great scene in Vikings, a TV show on History, channel, where Travis Fimmel killed that guy? I wept at his performance.
>>315398746 >It's everyone else's fault that I don't watch TV and is thus ignorant of the fact that Vikings is a very popular TV series >I never watch Control, RocknRolla or War Horse. >It's everyone else's fault that I never saw Source Code And they don't hire Oscar calibres actors and directors because they are to expensive and Oscar people won't sign up for these kind of projects. >>315398846 Yes I'm looking at and I'm seeing someone that can be from the Mediterranean region >In before Italians, Greece and Spaniards aren't white meme
I'm going to backtrack to the scourge/forsaken convo to ask, what happened to all the obsidian statues/destroyers? They never showed up in northrend. the only appearance they made in WoW was ahn'qiraj which boiled down to "bug people made them, except not, they're egyptians" in cata
>>315368327 Moon is a movie about a space man working alone on the moon that uncovers a devious plot about the people who sent him there. It's really good, though I don't think this gives the director enough credentials to make a Warcraft movie.
>>315400270 that's what I meant by "bug people made them, except not, they're egyptians" what I'm asking is why there weren't any in wotlk, did all of the destroyers in the scourge just conveniently die?
>>315402358 And making a 2 hours live action movie with hollywood actors and huge amounts of CG costs relatively nothing, right?
>>315402513 Because they're not budgeting for a 60-90 minute animated movie, they're budgeting for a game. Believe it or not 3D animation is relatively cheap as far as other forms of film making goes. Its just usually not the chosen option because of the stigma in this country against animation in general. But a company like Blizzard would get a pass same as Disney or Dreamworks.
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