Sonic Lost World is shaping up to be the worst selling Sonic game ever released on Steam. Despite being a AAA Sonic game, and despite having been released less than two days ago, it is currently only the 65th best selling game on Steam.
Owner stats from SteamSpy:
>Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
643,281 (± 20,250)
556,093 (± 18,831)
>Sonic Adventure DX
396,612 (± 15,908)
>Sonic Adventure 2
255,873 (± 12,780)
166,510 (± 10,312)
>Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
158,310 (± 10,055)
>Sonic and SEGA All Stars Racing
137,057 (± 9,356)
>Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode II
136,053 (± 9,321)
>Sonic Lost World
2,735 (± 1,613)
What Sonic game should they have ported instead? If not a Sonic game, what SEGA game would you have preferred and do you think it would be selling better right now?
>Sega will see sales of Lost World and decide not to bother releasing the PC ports of Bayonetta, Vanquish, and Virtua Fighter 5: FS they could be sitting on right now
Death, take me now
Wait I thought steam has a user userbase, those numbers are pathetic.
Also many will wait for it to go on sale, bundles, etc, where Generations and SART got most of their sales. Steam games arent bought on their own, they're lumbered with you via the humble bundle
Sonic Colors would've been a better choice, if only because it plays similarly to Generations and would look real purdy in HD. Unleashed could work but I don't know if it's still controversial or not among Sonic autists.
>lmao look at this shit fucking pathetic
>YES I LOVE THIS GAME WHY IS IT DOING BAD THOUGH
>really enjoyed the demo on Wii U
Find this green villain lady mildly attractive
>heard they removed gimmicky gamepad controls for wisp stuff
>from what I've heard the soundtrack is pretty great
>game has really appealing visual style
I think I might bite when it dips in price during the winter sale, but worried the demo was deceptive. What do?
1. Its been out a few days.
2. It hasnt been in a bundle/deal yet.
3. PC users just dont buy games on Steam right away because they know they'll eventually be offered a sale.
Its not necessarily the quality of the game so much as PC users being spoiled and not wanting to spend their money. Hell, I got Generations with the kart game for I think £7. No way in hell I'm buying Lost World for £20 when I know its going to drop to pennies at the next sale.
Maybe make your own decision instead of asking /v/ to make it for you? Huh big guy? Reckon you're man enough to make your own decisions? Maybe look up a little playthrough see if you like it? Maybe see if that piques your interest? Huh?
Steam has more than 125 million users, probably closer to 150 million by now. But most of those accounts are probably exclusively playing DOTA 2
I was under the impression that all of the best levels from Unleashed (the 360/PS3 version anyways) had been modded into Generations. And Colors can be emulated in Dolphin, with a 60FPS hack and gorgeous IQ. Though obviously the system requirements are much higher than a hypothetical PC port of Colors.
>bought the game because the demo of the first level was fun
Valve doesnt give a shit. They benefit all the same.
Its the third parties who suffer.
Its also why so many of them like to release their games later on PC. The market is almost mobile tier.
>the market is almost mobile tier
I miss when Steam wasn't this way. I think things got really bad starting around the time green light became a thing, or even slightly before that. There's thousands of trash fucking games taking up space on the storefront.
It's a mediocre game, released two years after anyone would really give a damn, and it removes features from the original version and does nothing to make up for it. The best thing this has going for it is the potential of getting good mods, but I doubt it will have much of a modding base.
As for what Sonic game they should've put up there, I think there's some nostalgia bucks to be earned with Heroes, especially since a PC version exists already, just not on Steam. As for a non-Sonic game, Jet Set Radio Future has been asked about a ton, as has Bayonetta.
I totally forgot about the mods that Generations has. Unleashed and Generations do have some differences though; for example, Unleashed's boost attracts rings from further away than Generations' does.
Yep. They're the only worthwhile market place and they've conditioned their fucking users to not buy games for less than a fiver. Mental.
Couple this with no quality control and devs will eventually stop bothering. Its the same thing that happened with the Wii.
>Hey come make games for our 140 million strong install base!
>Wow thats a huge market, okay you got it!
>Dont realise that said users dont fucking buy anything that isnt either gimmicky trash or published by Nintendo
Its depressing, but really, when you sit down and look at the vidya world, there's maybe 10 million hardcore gamers between every platform, but the numbers are alluring as fuck.
Big games still sell a ton even at more regular prices.
It's this middle tier of games that are suffering. Games that should be able to stand above the sea of indie shit, but can't due to visibility.
It probably doesn't help that Sega released this game right after the Halloween sale drained everyone of their money and didn't promote it at all on social media or the front page of the store, and didn't give it a pre-order discount like they did with Valkyria Chronicles and others.
Generations and All Stars Racing Transformed are the definitive way to play those games.
Colors in Dolphin is the definitive way to play that game.
But for every other Sonic game I don't really see any reason to bother with the PC versions.
SEGA doesn't advertise their PC releases. And Steam is flooded by garbage (so that Lost World looks good in comparison) so no one uses Steam anymore to check for new releases.
That's just the reality of the case. Also 2 years too late.
Nonsense, the sprint button allows for three speeds of sonic
It's the ideal situation to allow Sonic to still be a platformer and go fast.
What? Don't be ridiculous, Lost World allowed Sonic to be both 2D + 3D, allowed him to traverse platforms and go fast, and had some really good ideas in the levels. It was definitely a step in the right direction.
That's essentially Sega's mentality.
>Sonic 06 bombed? Guess fans don't want the Adventure style games.
>Sonic 4 bombed? Guess fans don't want anything like the classic games.
>Sonic Colors did well? Keep Pontac and Graff that's obviously what the fans want.
I bought it, since I was craving for a decent 3d platformer, and the market is dry aside from emulation. I must say, the beginning of the game isn't as bad as I thought it'd be, but I find there's too much left unexplained in the basic controls of the game. I dig the level aesthetic though, it looks great.
Sonic was about momentum, not "fast". Acceleration and a full range from zero to top speed, with the potential to go faster by using terrain and gimmicks, is what made Sonic gameplay. Giving Sonic two fixed speeds is fucking moronic and opposite to how Sonic gameplay works.
Not only Lost World perpetuated the 2D sections that have to go, it was slow, had some really wonky physics, double jumping, terrible level design and SPEED CHANGE BUTTONS. For all you braindead sperglords senseless complaints about it, at least the Unleashed formula had momentum in it.
>Keep Pontac and Graff
I know you're not supposed to care about the story in these games but these guys are the worst. Lost World has so many moments where you think "Why did Tails suddenly flip out?"
Literally no 3D game has ever been able to do what they wanted it to do. If the controls are only borderline adequate, then it's a success. I remember playing a demo of it and thinking it was at the very least easy to maneuver and the controls weren't awful. That alone made me consider purchasing it over any other Sonic game I've ever played.
Lame as fuck jokes
Bad writing like dropped plot points.
In Lost World out of no where Tails acts like a dick to Eggman.
In Lost World Eggman would say something threatening but would never follow up on anything
In the same game Tails gets turned into a robot, then the next scene he's not a robot, no explanation.
>>Sonic 06 bombed? Guess fans don't want the Adventure style games.
To be absolutely fair, the Adventure games need either a major revamping or a complete set of work into them.
I mean, even if every character controlled as well as they could, it wouldn't have made Sonic 2006 that much better.
Pontac and Graff know jack shit about Sonic anything. They're basically writing everything from a glance at the series. As such, they're just sticking the characters in generic Saturday morning cartoon scenarios with bottom of the barrel writing. There is no longer any lore or context to the series, just one dimensional characters, random dead end concepts, and cringey as fuck dialogue and "humor". They can't even portray the main characters right. Eggman is the only one who's ever decent, but for whatever reason Eggman/Robotnik is a character blessed by the gods to never suck no matter what.
>2013, typing of the dead overkill
>fucking based, thank you
>2014, valkyria chronicles
>holy shit it gets even better? what will next years game be? jet set radio future? outrun 2? bayonetta or vanquish i bet right?
>a mediocre wii u sonic game
Oh well, theres next years game I guess. If they dont PC port the 25th anniversary Sonic game I can get it on PS4. Lost world is an oddity, they should have put it on pc too when the original came out.
Its the voice acting f4m. Eggmans voice is based and perfect. Who wrote sonic unleashed? sonic team? That was the last sonic game that had a story with some depth and characterisation in it, along with beautiful animation and CGI. Everything since colors has been paper thin.
Lost World was on the front page and had social media composure. PC games rarely get blanket advertising anyway. Any one that was interested in buying this full price has done this already, the rest will get it on a sale or something.
>least the Unleashed formula had momentum in it
>mac speed by pressing square
Oh shut up. Lost World was a call back to the mega drive games in regards to multiple paths, solid platforming (that funnily enough requires precision hence the run button you idiot), and for the most part the level design was great, with the usual gimmicky crap that drags down every post 1998 sonic game. Definitely a step in the right direction.
>Wanting "go to the other side of the tube" multiple paths instead of the ones in Generations that's actually different
I can't, because a lot of those stages have shoddy stage design, that would only be fixed by editing certain portions out and changing how some of the enemies behave and how many hits they can take.
A Generations/Unleashed style Radical Train sounds fun, but not the way it is originally.
>Acceleration and a full range from zero to top speed
These are both concepts that still exist in the game. If you start from zero while holding sprint, you don't just immediately shoot off superfast.
Ironically, you could do that in the original games by spin dashing, which iirc wasn't in Lost World.
>I was under the impression that all of the best levels from Unleashed (the 360/PS3 version anyways) had been modded into Generations.
Every day time level except the final one because that one has werehog portions and modders can't find a way to cut those portions properly.
Pretty much this. But it's more than just Eggman's voice. He still manages to be carried decently on average.
However, they fucked up his and Tails' characterization so horribly in Lost World.
They're depicting Eggman like some aging villain who's losing his grip and turning into a pathetic joke. He gets stomped on by the Zeti and never gets a moment of triumph, simply being cast aside by Sonic at the end like it's nothing. His most defining attribute, his engineering, is now being undermined by Tails, as they're depicting Tails a much more competent and capable engineer. They've taken the threat out of Eggman and made him impotent to the point he's just an angry laughing stock that's gradually losing his worth in the series and now his signature skill doesn't have value anymore. It's fucking depressing.
Well no shit, OP. Anyone that wanted to play it has pretty much already played it. That being said not many people want to play Lost World in the first place. The game goes to shit pretty quickly.
Sonic used to have good lore.
But since retards demanded they remove most story elements from Sonic games as if that was the fucking problem, now we have shitty games AND shitty story what little there is of it.
Lore is always fun. Now it's not because it's gone.
Wait nevermind. Lore isn't always fun because I remembered the comic's super duper amazing lore about ancient aliums and realized I was a liar.
Lost World was a shitty game on Wii U and, unsurprisingly, it's still a shitty game on PC. They should have ported literally any other Sonic game. Actually, if they were smart they'd rerelease Sonic 06, advertise it as a meme game with no effort at all put into the port, and call any unintentional bugs "a feature". Would sell like hotcakes.
>When you let go of the boost button you slow down too
I dont recall the spin dash keeping you at top speed if you hold the button.
>what's your point? They are both buttons/button combos which allow you to instantly hit your top speed
Simple, one is built as a supplement to the level design in that you can get through the majority of the game without using it (spin dash) and one is the gimmick of the game resulting in sloppy and lazy level design (boostan)
Spindash does not reach top speed, and you can't sustain it. It's only a burst of speed for one moment, and the player is responsible for retaining the speed it gives through legitimate gameplay. The boost is instant perpetual top speed and can be sustained by doing nothing but holding a button.
>3 bosses, which they copypasted through entire game.
3 great bosses as opposed to rehash bosses, cool
>Over 9000 similar levels (3 per zone is enough).
Complaining about too many levels? Neo /v/ is real
Great for mixing up the gameplay and adding a reason to replay levels
>Muh story for kiddies.
Its sonic you moron.
>one is built as a supplement to the level design in that you can get through the majority of the game without using it (spin dash) and one is the gimmick of the game resulting in sloppy and lazy level design (boostan)
If it's fundamental to the gameplay then it's not a gimmick, it's a mechanic. If it's optional and you can do most of the game without it, THEN it's a gimmick
If anything the spin dash is a gimmick, why even have it if you don't need to use it?
>They are both buttons/button combos which allow you to instantly hit your top speed
Holy hell you've never played Sonic 2/3K have you? The speed cap in that game is far beyond the spindash. FAR beyond.
>If it's fundamental to the gameplay then it's not a gimmick, it's a mechanic. If it's optional and you can do most of the game without it, THEN it's a gimmick
That's idiotic. Any game with a mechanic that is optional is gimmicky? Shut up. The boosting is both fundamental AND a gimmick, in which lies the problem.
>If anything the spin dash is a gimmick, why even have it if you don't need to use it?
Hurr Durr, i tired of robotnik (but it is only him in name, every robot form - different boss)
>Complaining about too many levels
In mediocre boring game - yes, it is the problem.
>Gimmick for motion controls
Hah, nintendobaby detected.
Kids can't follow convoluted time travel story in 06. Because it was game for adults.
And wisps and many stages were the best decision the game had, even if most of them were gimmicky.
Not saying it's the best Sonic game, but it's probably top 3 for games since the Saturn.
Are you fucking trolling? Sonic decelerates after a spindash. Jumping after a spindash decelerates faster. You have to roll down slopes to pick up speed after a spindash, otherwise the speed gradually decreases.
Because the game is built around it? Literally what I said above. In the same way sailing is a gimmick in rush adventure. Or the werewolf in unleashed. The game is built around it, it was not added to supplement the game. If anything the game was made to supplement the gimmick.
What's with Sonic fans being unable to recognize quality? Here you are disregarding proper level design while defending a game so bad even the most rabid Sonicfag won't have any of it. And all for what? Cheap nostalgic appeal with old enemies and sound effects? The fuck is wrong with you?
>Because the game is built around it?
That's not what a gimmick is, stupid.
A gimmick is like most of the levels in Mario 3D World where they introduce a mechanic for one stage, leave it, and maybe come back to it once or twice in the future worlds.
By that definition what the fuck is the distinction between a regular mechanic and a gimmick?
It sounds a lot more like you inherently dislike the concept of boosting and want to find a reason to hate it, but you just sound like a retard who doesn't know what she's talking about
>its good level design because I say so!
>its bad level design because I say so!
What is it with Generations babbies not recognising their game for the shit show it is? Because it looks pretty? Because it gives you a lot of pretty set pieces to look at while you hold boost?
Generations is the cinematic crap of the sonic franchise. Hell, even a few posts above there was a post belittling Planet Wisp, the only level with challenging platforming, specifically because you cant just boost through it. Just shut the fuck up.
A mechanic that supplements the core gameplay isnt gimmicky.
A mechanic that defaults on the core gameplay (fucking platforming) to give precedence to it is a gimmick.
Its not a difficult concept.
>le hold boost to win meme
You are not doing yourself any favors in trying to win this opinionated argument you're in, you tool.
First off, boost does not default on the platforming.
Secondly, that's not what a gimmick is. A gimmick is a unique mechanic that is used to create gameplay different from the core. Another example of this, again from mario, is the manta ray surfing in the Galaxy games. Boost is not that. It is a mechanic that the game is built around, as it should be, and is at the core of the game, for Act 2 Sonic at least.
>First off, boost does not default on the platforming.
Not even him but are honestly implying that generations didnt completely forgoe platforming to make room for large areas of hold square and dodge left? Because that the 3D gameplay right there
You'd have more of a point if you mentioned Unleashed, Generations has a good share of fast paced plataforming, the only hold boost to win level in that game is Green Hill in which you can actually beat it without touching the analog stick
It has it's own style of platforming during boosting and still retains a traditional style of platforming at times. Green Hill is the only stage any of your complaints hold any weight and it's the fucking first level that's supposed to be babby mode. Calm your hateboner down, buddy.
"Reaction based platforming" as you call it is basically just glorified QTEs. The previous games had actual depth to the gameplay, there was real movement, control, and exploration.
I'm not bullshitting. If anything, boost gameplay has MORE variety with regards to movement abilities and different buttons you need to press than traditional 2D genesis games. The difference is the games are as a whole easier to complete at a base level which you are translating as meaning they are inherently inferior
>during those sections
Which are actually few and far between and only happen when the player hits a setpiece that transitions them to the section of the stage.
>basically just glorified QTEs
>If I keep simplifying what people say and what are in the games I'll eventually have a point
>The previous games had actual depth to the gameplay, there was real movement, control, and exploration
As do the boost games.
I honestly don't mind as long as it's not tripe like 2006 or Shadow the Hedgehog.
It's not as fun when we can have outrageous shit like Adventure 2, but since we're too afraid of rocking the boat, were stuck with stories like lost world.
I'm just afraid of it becoming homogenized like New Super Mario Brothers has, refusing to do anything new with it's settings.
But they made Eggman the last boss who really WAS tricking Sonic into helping him on Lost World.
The fight was disappointing, but yeah.
Colors was them trying to bring back more platforming, if you want Nintendo'd Sonic, look at Lost World.
I've played through Colors and Generations and part of Unleashed. For the most part they're pic related, and that's when it's not hold boost sections which take up half the fucking games. Hold boost. Watch scenery fly by railroaded pathway. Sidestep. Jump and duck on occasion. That's it. Oh and QTEs, because they need more filler substitution for legitimate gameplay.
>If anything, boost gameplay has MORE variety with regards to movement abilities and different buttons you need to press than traditional 2D genesis games.
This is fucking hilarious and proof you never played the Genesis games for more than 30 seconds or have ADHD.
.Hold boost. Watch scenery fly by railroaded pathway. Sidestep. Jump and duck on occasion. That's it. Oh and QTEs, because they need more filler substitution for legitimate gameplay
It's pretty clear you've not touched the boost games or if you have, you've decided to lie so you have a reason to hate it. Fine, don't like it. See if I care in the slightest. But you came into this thread and decided to press your opinion as fact and I'm almost convinced you're the usual faggot who cries about boost. All that's left is to post that one image comparing jump arcs from the Genesis games to modern games and use it to spout more anecdotal crybaby nonsense.
People like you are the reason I hope they never make another Genesis game or get Taxman to even touch 3&K. Who cares if I would love it, I don't want you to enjoy something like that and that's worth it completely.
>the worst selling Sonic game ever released on Steam
now let's check Lost World's sales again when 2006, Colors, Unleashed, Secret Rings, Black Knight and Sonic Boom are on Steam too
I have no idea what this pic is trying to convey aside from Green Hill and maybe, maaaybe Crisis City at parts
But if the issue here is being locked at a single pathway at times then pretty much 90% of Sonic 1 is doomed
>that other spin (where you press down while already moving)
>move (x/z axes)
>light speed dash (the thing with the ring chains)
Should I go on or have I already made my point?
Boost gameplay objectively has more movement abilities, and therefore a larger amount of buttons to press. You are literally deluded if you think the genesis games had more traversal variety.
yeah because the genesis sonic games totally had a dozen of different routes per stage, amirite?
in most of them you only had an upper and a lower route, sometimes with a third middle one in longer levels like Metropolis
>full 360 slope and pinball physics and fully organic gameplay
>generic platformer physics where slopes are of little to no consequence
>yet there are slopes but Sonic is usually just pulled through them with an automated sequence among many other things
Probably because the game does not require the in-depth physics of the Genesis games. I can foresee many problems if they were.
Loops have always been automated on some level.
Amazing counter-argument. Guess I hit the nail on the head. People like you really don't deserve nice things.
It is literally impossible to give the player full control of half pipe physics in a 3D environment without either constraining it or automating it in some way. While it's possible from a technical standpoint it isn't anywhere near controllable enough for the front end user without doing a large amount of string pulling behind the scenes, which is why locking sonic on a spline happens.
There literally is no reason for this even to exist on PC. It's not even the better Wii Sonic which is Sonic Colors which has some amazing levels and 10/10 soundtrack.
There already is Generations on Steam which is a lot better than this shit.
Sega is retarded. Period.
Some of the modern moves are helpers for a 3d environment and others are cheap filler shit because the game lacks proper Sonic gameplay. The Genesis games needed less because the fundamental mechanics were so rich that they resulted in naturally dynamic gameplay with finesse.
>that other spin
So you don't even know what the fuck rolling is or how it works.
Also you left out peelout, instashield, and midair roll.
>Some of the modern moves are helpers for a 3d environment and others are cheap filler shit because proper Genesis Sonic gameplay is near impossible in full 3D
ftfy, retard mong
Sonic CD is a Sega CD game, not a Genesis game.
>b-b-but the CD requires Genesis to leech off of
To what? That aimless bitchfest? Your post didn't have a fucking argument so it got a non-argument in response.
>Loops have always been automated on some level.
No they haven't you stupid cunt. The loops were not automated in the slightest in the Genesis games. Movement through loops was 100% natural.
This can be achieved without going to the far extreme of taking all control away from the player and locking Sonic to a path and automating all movement for a set period.
>because proper Genesis Sonic gameplay is near impossible in full 3D
Just because Sonic Team is too retarded to accomplish it and you lack the ability to conceive it doesn't mean it's impossible.
I thought Lost World was a good game. I'd honestly say it's the most underrated mainline Sonic game and it deserves way more respect than it gets.
That said, I can't speak for the pc port. Maybe it's bad or something, but either way I just find it sad when people say it's a godawful mess or something since while it certainly has faults I think it's a step in a good direction and just because it isn't like Unleashed-Generations doesn't mean it's a bad game.
>Also you left out peelout, instashield, and midair roll.
I said genesis sonic not CD sonic, so the peelout doesn't apply
I'll pay the instashield
the 'midair roll' is just a byproduct of jumping
>Some of the modern moves are helpers for a 3d environment and others are cheap filler shit because the game lacks proper Sonic gameplay
"Proper sonic gameplay" is a buzzword and you're seriously reaching for excuses now
>didnt have an argument
I argued the fact that you've never touched a boost game in your fucking life or are otherwise straight up lying to try and make out like boost games are "objectively bad" or some shit.
>no they haven't
Yes they have. At what point have loops served any purpose other than to be eye candy or to show off how super cool and fast Sonic is? Never.
Then why has it not been done yet by Sonic Team or otherwise? How come the closest games to putting Genesis into 3D, the adventure games, were almost completely shit?
The way the momentum controls in Genesis Sonic would be far too uncontrollable in 3D without some kind of limiter. Being 2D was the limiter for the Genesis games. At least have a clue if you're going to make the claim that it can be done. Any way you think about it, the full scale of momentum physics from the old games simply can't be emulated in 3D either becuase the player would not enjoy the experience or because of dev restrictions, money, time, or otherwise.
>So you don't even know what the fuck rolling is or how it works.
Just because he doesn't know the proper autistic term for one of the moves in the game doesn't mean he can't see you're full of shit
>I said genesis sonic not CD sonic, so the peelout doesn't apply
Talking about the classics, as in, when the games were good, not a specific cluster of games so you can filter out things that don't serve your argument.
>the 'midair roll' is just a byproduct of jumping
It's an ability in Triple Trouble where Sonic can go into a spin in midair if not already in a spin state.
>"Proper sonic gameplay" is a buzzword and you're seriously reaching for excuses now
It's a phrase that refers to the gameplay established in the classics. Gameplay that was essentially complete, polished, and set the rules and standards for Sonic games.
>Sonic was about momentum
I don't think people understand just how different a 3D game has to be from a 2D game if it wants to play well. There's a reason Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 are basically entirely different games that just share some characters.
Adventure tried to bring Sonic to 3D and while I enjoy it for what it is, it has a lot of faults and some of them are just inherent in the way the system works. The Colors style worked alright but it turned "go fast" into a dedicated button that you just hold down for a while to speed through certain sections. Any other time you're either going slow as molasses or everything is just a blur and you should really just use the boost button to speed it up. Lost World is the closest to a proper 3D way to handle Sonic I've personally played, and while I won't pretend it's perfect it has some changes (namely a dedicated "run" button, rather than a dedicated "go fast" button) that help it a lot compared to the issues with the Adventure style/.
>when the games were good
>it's not the same as my childhood so it's bad even though I understand literally nothing of why they wouldn't work in 3D
W E W
L A D
Because it's a terrible game. The run button they intended to give you more control of your speed ends up giving you less control over your speed. The 3D parts of Desert Ruins are textured and are laid out like a bigger, emptier Sonic CD Special Stage. The final boss music sounds like three songs playing over each other. I guess Sonic Team wanted to make sure people didn't think they got competent
>Talking about the classics
That's not what this discussion is about. It's about the genesis games, always has been. CD almost counts, but triple trouble on the game gear certainly doesn't
>Gameplay that was essentially complete, polished, and set the rules and standards for Sonic games.
Mario also had an established standard for gameplay, but when 3D came around they completely changed the formula to account for the added dimension of movement. It took a long time but sonic eventually found a formula that works in 3D, and you just dislike it inherently because it isn't the same as something which is only feasable in 2D.
Some people prefer their children's stories to be about edgy bullshit I guess.
I dunno I don't think the writing in the more recent games is amazing, but it gets the job done and doesn't overcomplicate things like a lot of the older 3D games did.
I'd argue the first Adventure was a good middle ground.
>I argued the fact that you've never touched a boost game in your fucking life or are otherwise straight up lying to try and make out like boost games are "objectively bad" or some shit.
How the fuck is that an argument? All that is is an assumption about what games I have or haven't played. You said nothing else that actually adds to the debate.
Also there's a difference between a bad game and a bad Sonic game. A Sonic game can be a good game while also being bad by Sonic standards.
>Yes they have. At what point have loops served any purpose other than to be eye candy or to show off how super cool and fast Sonic is? Never.
Hence why you barely fucking played them and/or have ADHD. The loops were not automated whatsoever. Sonic's response to the loops were as natural as his interaction with any curved surface. They required sufficient speed to clear due to gravity, and upon coming down the slope gravity would add to his speed, etc. They are eye candy nowadays to please babies like you. In the classics they functioned as an obstacle that challenged the player's speed.
>Then why has it not been done yet by Sonic Team or otherwise?
Because they themselves have forgotten how Sonic works. They've proven with Sonic 4 that they can't even fucking get the 2d mechanics right. They have no idea how Sonic works or what to do with it, so they just wing it every time with generic platforming elements and stuff it with gimmicks and hope it sells by brand strength.
The first Adventure game (minus the ending with the entire city getting fucking obliterated) is decent in concept but the dialogue is beyond awful. If they had kept the same plot but made the characters speak normal sentences instead of broken thought trails it would have been passable
>Mario also had an established standard for gameplay, but when 3D came around they completely changed the formula to account for the added dimension of movement. It took a long time but sonic eventually found a formula that works in 3D, and you just dislike it inherently because it isn't the same as something which is only feasable in 2D.
Mario's translation to 3d was actually a logical leap and reflected how the 2d games worked. They gave Mario new moves to compliment the mechanics and the biggest formulaic differences were in things like powerups and level progression.
Sonic's translation to 3d has been one random mess of an attempt after another that only ever barely reflects how the 2d games worked. This isn't about disliking so much as being measurably worse and nonsensical in almost every regard.
Don't say this when this has literally been a battle of opinions since it started. You are the fuck that acts like he's right in his subjectiveness and even goes as far as lying to act like he's right. So my argument is that you're a complete retard.
>Also there's a difference between a bad game and a bad Sonic game. A Sonic game can be a good game while also being bad by Sonic standards.
What Sonic is is not decided by you. Sonic is many things these days. He's the Genesis games, the Adventure games, and Boost games, and every shade in between. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not "Sonic". And if you think so, you are one pretentious dickhead.
They were all placed on downward slopes so you basically have to try to fuck it up in 1, and the spindash works the same as the boost pads in the adventure games to push you through them and ending with Sonic going a faster speed than before. The function of the loops have always been the same, though the implementation is more natural in the Genesis games but that's not my point.
>have forgotten how Sonic works
True but as I said, Sonic is many things these days. Sonic 4 was also DIMPS, though Ep 1 had that crooked-teeth hack's nose in it, hence why it's worse than Ep 2.
>didn't acknowledge the otherwise part
Not a person has been able to. Period. Why? Because it's an unfeasible venture.
Now piss off, retard.
>They were all placed on downward slopes
No they weren't.
>the spindash works the same as the boost pads in the adventure games to push you through them and ending with Sonic going a faster speed than before
What the fuck are you smoking? Sonic lost speed after a spindash through deceleration. There is no situation in which Sonic gained speed after a spindash unless it was downhill, which Sonic gained speed going downhill spindash or not.
>Not a person has been able to. Period. Why? Because it's an unfeasible venture.
Several fans have achieved it already and the results are actually very flexible and elegant even if unpolished and not fully realized, and have the potential to be ideal if worked on further, and can blend free movement and controlled movement to work unrestrained or as modern games or anywhere in between. Look up Sonic GDK.
>No, the Adventure games reflected exactly what it would be like to put the old 2D gameplay into 3D. A fucking mess.
It was their first attempt and it was rushed thanks to Sega's retardation. It never had a chance to evolve.
This is some great level design.
>What shall we do for this level?
>I dunno, just put some ramps here and there
.Sonic lost speed after a spindash through deceleration. There is no situation in which Sonic gained speed after a spindash unless it was downhill, which Sonic gained speed going downhill spindash or not
Reading comprehension. Try it some time and maybe context will work in your favor.
It looks to have the same problems the Adventure games had. Especially the fucking camera.
There was no evolution. It showed that the speed that would be obtained would be completely uncontrollable while the momentum would not work anywhere near as smoothly with precise 3D platforming compared to the the precise 2D platforming of the Genesis games. If the foundation is fucked, why would you build on top of it if it will only result in it falling apart? Creating such a thing that would work as well as the old 2D games is simply unfeasible for one reason or another. This is why you don't have a clue.
Why is sonic even a relevant character still? I honestly wish he would just fuck off. A couple of games on the sega consoles is all the franchise even has to call decent games, let's be real all of the 3d games are awful
Seriously what the fuck is appealing about this character? He's just some extremely stupid looking blue cat that doesn't even resemble a hedgehog. There's nothing interesting about him, he runs fast and eats chili dogs. That's literally it. How is there such a huge fandom built around something so stupid?
>as they're depicting Tails a much more competent and capable engineer.
nigga, tails was officially established as an engineer way back in Sonic 2, he pilots it in Sky Chase and saves Sonic with it in the ending
Seriously what the fuck is appealing about this character? He's just some small fat man that doesn't even resemble a plumber aside from entering randomly placed huge pipes. There's nothing interesting about him, he jumps high and eats mushrooms. That's literally it. How is there such a huge fandom built around something so stupid?
I never said he wasn't an engineer.
The point is that he gave the good guys a technological edge against Eggman's forces. That was the role Tails served in the series along with being Sonic's sidekick.
Now they've made him superior to Eggman entirely, rendering Eggman impotent as a villain, since Eggman's advantage was his technological mastery and monopoly.
I don't hate everything, I hate sonic because the only thing the series is good for is having bad games and developing kids with aspergers into full blown furries
Mario's character may be boring but at least the franchise is stable and hasn't released putrid shit for the last 15 years like Sonic
>A couple of games on the sega consoles is all the franchise even has to call decent games
The advance games aren't shit, the rush games aren't shit
>let's be real all of the 3d games are awful
The day stages of Unleashed, Colors, Generations, and a decent chunk of Lost World are not 'awful'
I'm probably responding to pasta though
ever since the very first game, he is established as a super intelligent scientist that's held back by arrogance
eggman was always impotent exactly because of this issue, since all of his creations are outsmarted by Sanic. meanwhile, Tails keeps his cool and doesn't make overly complicated machines, just some little gadgets and vehicles.
People love the gameplay and Nintendo isn't stupid enough to reinvent the wheel when they already succeeded the first time with SMB (for 2D) and Super Mario 64 (for 3D).
Unlike Sega which cannot keep to one fucking game mechanic without wiping the slate and coming up with new convoluted bullshit that nobody asked for and even less cared for.
>I don't have everything, I just hate everything modern and lump them all together.
also, blaming the fanbase is the most retarded thing you can do for any game ever. the game's quality has nothing to do with how mental kids are behaving on the internet, unless you only play a sonic game while one of these kids are sitting on your lap.
>Sonic 2 and 3
>Eggman creates landmass conquering armies of robots, plunders gems of ultimate power, and builds a city sized doom weapon that launches into orbit
>Tails has a rocket powered biplane and presumably uses other gizmos to assist Sonic
>Sonic Adventure 1 and 2
>Eggman summons a god of destruction, makes it do his bidding (until the end), hijacks his grandfather's planet busting doom weapon in space, and Tails helps the good guys with his roboplane and some gadgets
>Sonic Lost World
>Eggman has nothing but a small robot army that's taken over by the Zeti, is left stranded and helpless, Tails tops him at everything technology and engineering the entire game, then the brief moment Eggman has a chance to make a triumphant comeback, he gets fucked over again and brushed aside
And here's how it stacks up against Sega's past porting efforts in the same vein (out of left field ports done on a tiny budget with no fanfare)
283,653 (± 13,456)
>The Typing of The Dead: Overkill
249,347 (± 12,617)
522,122 (± 18,248)
>Sonic Lost World
2,735 (± 1,613)
Do you have the numbers of what those games sold in their first few days?
You realize you're comparing years old ports to something that literally came out not even half a week ago right? I'm not saying Lost World is selling amazingly well, but come on.
>absolutely nothing to tell you which enemies need the homing attack or kick to be defeated
>mfw egg pawns couldn't be homing attacked
Valkyria Chronicles sold 200K in the first two months (potentially the first few weeks even) and was hovering in the top 10 best sellers on Steam for weeks. Lost World has been in the 60-80 range since release.
Binary Domain and Typing of the Dead have barely moved any copies in the last year.
There is an indication.
When you die because you thought to use the wrong choice out of two arbitrarily different homing attacks, silly.
There's so much incompetent/thoughtlessly-implemented shit in this game that it's almost impressive
>I think ignoring everything Colors and Generations did is a step in a good direction
>It's a good choice to toss the baby out with the bath water
>Making a new child takes no time or effort at all
>See? I'm fucking this pig right now. We're well on our way to a good, new baby here
People want a Sonic game where you can run and jump without gimmicks or shitty cameras getting in the way. Sega keeps trying to reinvent this every one or two games without any understanding of what people liked about the previous titles. It's not a step in a good direction if you're drunkingly stumbling everywhere.
Yeah it's shitty to compare a game that's been available for purchase for a month or so to games that have had at least a full year to sell, but after that first year there was hardly any change. So lumping in BD and TOTD numbers isn't too big of a sin when they hardly sold anything beyond their first year.
I guess what I'm getting at is it's not too likely Lost World is going to magically sell 200-400 thousand copies in the next 10-11 months. Fuck, I'm tired.
Since when did SA1 get achievements?
>last one is to do everything with Metal Sonic, who you have to do everything with everyone else to unlock
All things considered it has the potential. With sales and bundles not happening right away, those numbers will spike up now and then if it's going down the same path as the rest of the games. Projecting game sales after the first day is insanely stupid.
>People want a Sonic game where you can run and jump without gimmicks or shitty cameras getting in the way.
Nope, "people" want a perfect game that's never been realized yet and whatever attempt to become different than the past attempts becomes automatically shit because it's not like this perfect game that Genesis-era fans have envisioned.
You guys don't want Generations 2 or a Mario Galaxy ripoff, you just want a Sonic 2 mod and SonicRetro has a fuckton of these already.
Dang, feel for the devs on this one. I played Lost World on the U and it's a fun game. However, it's a Sonic game with an actual learning curve. Sonic has a lot of "moves" in LW, a few of which are brand new, and the levels are built around utilizing many of them. But at the start you'll just be treating it like a regular Sanic and not get much out of the game which is a shame and where many of the negative impressions come from.
Don't buy it. It introduces a lot of new mechanics which the game never explains. You'll throw the controller at the wall due to its bullshit difficulty. The post game content is shit. The soundtrack is pretty good so just download that. Don't believe the demos lies.
>tfw I almost got catfished
The game is pretty and has nice music but when you're stuck doing stupid shit like rolling in a snowball and pushing fruits with a some autoscroller segments on the side and you come to realize this is not a sonic game and you're down 50 bucks.
yup, a goldmine of freeware comprised of sprite swaps/redesigns that tells how much people crave for something "new" and "revolutionary".
just as if Nintendo apologists excused annual NSMB rehashes like they are SO much better than 64/Sunshine/Galaxy and Nintendo shoulçd even try making different things anymore, just stick to that.
I would kiss you If I fucking could. You're probably the first anon I seen for a while that recognizes boost is shit.
However I will say I do think generations is better than LW. Boost killed sonic and I wish to see it go but it was a crime generations did not get more support.
Sonic unleashed however was hot garbage even if only day stages.
I don't see the contradiction there, seeing how the game starts with Eggman trying to one-up the deadly six and failing, then he tries to one-up Sanic later and fails too.
He simply gets his arrogance to screw him up twice in this game, instead of just once.
So basically, the game gets a bad reputation due to unskilled players/critics
It's more like if Ninendo made every other game some sub-Other M tier reboot where they completely changed the gameplay beyond recognition aside from the most surface-level elements, and Mario fans screamed at people for not just eating up shovelware.
Sonic fans are the most delusional people on the planet, jesus christ.
>Razon & Zenon
Mah nigga. The only thing stopping that channel from being perfect is the obvious tool assists but its still great and covers a lot of hacks.
I don't have a particular favorite hack. I loved sonic brother trouble and sonic 2 retro remix.
I'm still only in the 3rd world and I think it's a fun platformer (boring bosses though) and don't understand what you guys are mad about. Disclaimer: the only other Sonic games I played were Advance 1 and Generations (and I didn't even finish those). People here are complaining about a bunch of shit (lore, momentum) that to me shows that if it was a game with an original character it would be much more well received, since the main complaint seems to be "not muh sonic".
apparently, I mean, look at:
>You'll throw the controller at the wall due to its bullshit difficulty.
I thought /v/ complained when games are casual, not the opposite.
Trails in the Sky SC selling like shit is a bit more disturbing. Sonic has been completely shit or lackluster in more than a decade so it's not weird for a new game to sell like crap, can't keep fooling people forever.
>nobody buys it on wii u because it's trash
>nobody buys it on pc because it's trash
>they'll keep pontac and graff but won't hire ian
He said he did on one of his videos but it doesn't stop the kids from swooning over the playthroughs. There was a recent hack with a metal sonic boss rush that had him doing split second instashields to dodge attacks it was very easy to tell the TAS there.
Still pretty good. Looks like he uses the usual slowdown and save states since most gameplay looks normal outside of super human reflexes.
>Kids can't follow convoluted time travel story in 06. Because it was game for adults.
I was 12 years old when 06 came out. I can follow it just fine. Even my 5 year old cousin could understand it. Maybe you and your friends were just retarded.
My argument relies on the fact Sonic Team is incompetent and can't even be trusted to properly iterate on a formula, let alone try to reinvent the wheel every game. For fuck's sake they managed to make a sequel to a score attack game into a borderline minigame collection that's impossible to do any kind of meaningful score attacking in.
That doesn't surprise me, its simply not very fun.
The controls quite simply are ass. Why the fuck do I have to hold a fucking trigger to RUN as SONIC the GOD DAMNED HEDGEHOG? Actually I'm tired of holding RT/R2 to sprint in games period, its not a fucking comfortable position when also having to hit or hold face buttons simultaneously. Homing attack and double jump are the exact same fucking button which makes no god damned sense when they don't even fully utilize the four face buttons. I don't know how they fucked up 2d movement after Generations. Speaking of Generations its the single best selling Sonic game by a large margin in the last 20 years and yet thats the one type of game they don't continue making. They'll churn out half a dozen shit games that play like Sonic Adventure, which is god awful.
I honestly was looking forward to playing, but god damn am I glad I pirated this trash.
>let alone try to reinvent the wheel every game
but that's literally what they've been doing for over a decade and it sells just enough to keep it alive so far. if it wasn't successful, they wouldn't keep pumping out new games, it's not like there's a billionaire Sonic fan that keeps funding Sega to make them despite having no one buying them
it's all boiled down to a few shit things like 06's glitchfest and Unleashed's night stages to justify condemning every single attempt at a modern sonic game as shit, because it's a cool meme.
like I said, it's automatically bad because it's different from the "perfect" sonic game genesis fans have envisioned but no one has successfully pulled.
>people bitch about pressing square to go fast
>meanwhile lost world makes you hold both fucking triggers
I used to think it was a dumb meme, but "sale culture" is actually a real cancer.
I understand wanting to get a lot of vidya for cheap without pirating, but it's getting crazy
>Steam only users insist JRPGs sell super well on Steam
>Check Neptunia Rebirth 1 sales
>About 20k less than Vita's physical sales
>Game was almost constantly on sale for 50% or more off
I'm sure it turned a profit, but I doubt it was THAT much. If you like a series consider paying more for it.
>like I said, it's automatically bad because it's different from the "perfect" sonic game genesis fans have envisioned but no one has successfully pulled.
Fucking laffo, whatever man, enjoy rolling snowballs and Sonic Boom.
The sales aren't the problem. People who wait for games to drop in price do so regardless and have always done so. We are patient for a reason. If anything those sales rejuvenated PC gaming.
The problem Steam is facing is over-saturation. When the barrier of entry is a small hurdle and not a 3 foot thick steel door a lot more people are going to get through. And the more people making and releasing games means more garbage to sift through while looking for actual worthwhile games.
Its a very first world problem to have too many games to play and simply not enough time, but it is a problem all the same, and quite possibly an economic one if things continue the way that they do.
And thats not even taking into the account that the game was hardly marketed. I didn't even know it was out or even coming to PC until I logged into Steam the other day.
>Have always done so
It has definitely gotten more common on Steam.
There will always be sale waiters, but Steam, especially in recent years, has heavily conditioned a LOT of people to wait until damn near everything is dirt cheap.
Why would they do that? I'm not sure about the Wii U, but the PS4 and Xbone both use Direct X which makes PC porting an incredibly simple job so long as they're not pushing any graphical or computational boundaries.
When the cost of manufacturing is significantly less than the potential sales its insane to think that they'd stop because one game sold poorly. But then again this is SEGA after all. They'll take any excuse to not bring a game west.
I honestly don't believe they will, I'm just saying if it all comes to the worst possible scenario they'll just stop porting Sonic games, I don't think Sega would give up on the entirety of the PC market, especially when they own 2 of the greatest PC franchises, Total War and Warhammer.
To be fair on a few things:
>It was released to little fanfare. I didn't even know it launched until someone one /v/ pointed it out.
>The price point is a bit high for a 2 year old Wii U game. $15-20 would have been a bit better. Most people are going to wait for a sale
>All the other games have been in bundles or on sale frequently to make up sales.
It will start to pick up once the modding scene is around or when it is a bit cheaper.
If anything piracy is much less rampant because of the Steam sales, which means that more gamers are buying games than ever before. And thats not even taking into consideration that these sales potentially replace used games sales as well, for the many console gamers who have switched over in recent years.
Using myself as an example, I almost exclusively bought games used for consoles. Now as I'm sure you're aware absolutely none of the money from used sales goes to devs, which is far more harmful than 50%-75% off. Especially if the game is still $15 at 75%. For years and years publishers like Ubisoft and EA bitched about used sales because as I'm sure you're aware used sales does in fact kill their profits by a good margin.
Now if you're a developer would you deny the platform where while a good chunk of the consumer base buys the games at reduced prices, absolutely none of your sales on this platform would be of the used variety. Therefore making every sale potential profit so long as you break even. Thats not even including the fact that Steam does not charge for publishing on their service upfront, but instead take a modest portion of individual sales.
Avoid the 3DS version, it's one of the worst games I've ever played
>great fucking music
>great graphics for the 3ds
>that SHIT level design
This game is something else I tell ya. Even if it was not a sonic game it would be a mediocre platformer. Even a sonicfag streamer couldn't finish it.
Lore might not be the right word. More like "exploring abandoned ruins of a lost civilization like it's fucking Metroid"
Megamix is great, Sonic Classic Heroes or S3Complete are great for a more vanilla experience. Here's a list of them.
It's really similar a GC running at a lower resolution. Monster Hunter didn't really improve visually compared to Freedom on PSP, Bravely Default shits itself when trying to do complex moves at 4X despite the simple visuals, Luigi's Mansion 2 doesn't look that good, Virtue's Last Reward had massive input delay on some puzzles
like that fucking dice puzzle holy shit.
Smash 3DS is the reason why they gave the boot to the Ice Climbers.
>defending sky road
>accusing me for e-celeb shit when its basically a video of a guy who can stomach any sonic game give up at lost world 3ds
I had to look up how to beat the fucking stage when I pirated that shit for my 3ds. Never had I had to do that in a sonic game. The camera for that stage was wonky.
Yeah and casuals will still pretend Sonic was always a bad game and never had good level design
Most of the idiots who complain about Sonic are too stupid to beat and platformers where it's not just a straight dash left to right to the end, they say Sonic is hold right to win yet go on to praise SMB level design.
>had to look up how to beat a part in a sonic game
>claims he's not a pleb
>goes on to criticize the level design because "it's too hurd :("
You must be one of these people>>315404458
Can you blame them? To fully enjoy classic Sonic you need literal autism to appreciate how it's built to avoid the technical limitations. Most people, even hardcore gamers really just want to run and jump on shit.
Anyone else crashing when they launch the steam version?
My specs are fine i have gtx970.
I read that other people who buy the game in other countries have to use a VPN, but I'm in America.. I feel I shouldn't have to do that.
I've tried everything I could think of.
Launched as admin, changed launch parameters to windowed, tried compatibility mode, rebooted, reinstalled directx, updated video drivers.
I was going to refund the game, but Steam said it would take Sonic All Star Racing away from me, which I paid full price for when it came out..
>A game that has been out for maybe 24 hours, and hasn't been a part of any of the Steam sales yet
>GUYS IT'S THE WORST SONIC SELLING GAME O N STEAM
>people still expect games to sell with 0 marketing
If I wasn't checking the new releases tab on Steam every so often, I wouldn't even know it was released on PC.
Any normie that wanted the game already have it on Wii U anyway.
Why buy this average Sonic game for 30€ when there are other, better games for the same price?
>Unironically defending Sonic the Hedgehog
>That shitty gimmicky gameplay
>The cringe worthy story and dialogue
>All the shit they've pulled over the years
>I...it's fun to hate on Sonic guys! Y..ou just don't have taste
This is exactly why they keep pumping out litreal shit games. No one can fucking admit that Sonic is terribly mediocre and has to change. Lost World is not a good game by any stretch of the imagination. It's middling, and people only defend it because it's not a steaming pile of freshly microwaved shit like 06 or Boom.
Man I've been watching DarkSpinesSonic streams and it looked like a solid game to me. Easily Top 6 of best Sonic Games (the first 3, this, Generations and Colors)
It's a Sonic game partially developed by Mario Galaxy devs, and it's a solid mix of both, plus influence from Sonic Heroes, Colors, even a little taste of Spinball.
there's 2D segments, boss fights, grind rails, gravity mechanics, and a couple actually difficult stages. Music is excellent.
it even has some weird, creative bonus stages and had DLC of NiGHTS, Zelda, and Yoshi's Island.
I mean it's clear that everyone involved was at least making an effort. It's not the best thing ever but I'd call it a solid game compared to some of Sonic's previous 3D excursions
Game was obviously too busy being a Mario Galaxy clone than a Sonic game. The items are pretty badly used in this game & poorly implemented. I mean, shields do not even appear in levels (only as reserve items), some wisps are used only once or twice (asteroid and hover), most of them are plain terrible (beat wisps) and before there was a patch in the wiiu version, rings didn´t do a damn thing. Also weird how there are no letter ranks during normal play yet the 3DS versions has the ranks.