Now that the dust has settled...which was truly better?
Sunshine fags need not apply.
SMG1, fact. SMG2 is on the same boat as 3D Land and 3D World (not implying it's shit, but it's just linear floating platforms in that game. In SMG there were these giant chunks of land for you to run around)
I honestly consider them both 2 halves of a full game and feel like calling one better than the other does both a disservice
The second undoubtedly has more polished level design, but the first still has the edge with better use of the space motif and a better atmosphere thanks to the Comet Observatory and story book
They're still the greatest games Nintendo as ever made either way
Galaxy 2 felt much more refined. Galaxy 1's hub isn't worth it, level design is just so much better in 2. It's still linear as hell like 1 which is a bummer but it's a definite improvement.
Galaxy 1 is best in my heart. The opening is amazing and the game has a unique mood to it. It doesn't feel all happy and silly. The levels are more atmospheric too, whether it be from their music or design. My absolute favorite is Space Junk Galaxy.
>mfw someone finally uses "now that the dust has settled" at an appropriate time.
>Not even mad they are years late.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't know about the greatest games every made, but that may be due to the fact that I haven't experienced multiple play throughs of each. They certainly did an amazing job of constructing a magical atmosphere that almost ALMOST reached what I felt playing super mario 64 for the first time.
I think this thread has inspired me to replay them
Sunshine was a piece of shit, Galaxy finally figured out how 3D Mario should be
Do some research on how many ways the N64 got fucked over by cartridges. It's literally the reason Sony now dominates the console market.
honestly, exploration is kinda overrated in my opinion. and it's not like linear stages can't have any discovery in them. look at 3d world. the stages in that game have hidden shit EVERYWHERE. it's actually kind of silly.
Mario stages were always about that with the occasional secret exit. This is precisely how Galaxy was.
64's open world was an excuse to reuse levels to save data space. Once the games moved past cartridges that formula lost its purpose.
>Galaxy finally figured out how 3D Mario should be
And Galaxy 2 delightfully fucked it up.
They really, really weren't anywhere close to the same in the amount of 2D.
>And Galaxy 2 delightfully fucked it up.
I seriously can't comprehend this argument. Galaxy 2 is more Galaxy. there's open stages, there's linear stages, they didn't fuck anything up. it just seems so petty, like arguing about whether SMW or SMB3 are better
Miyamoto would probably send an assassin to your house though
I feel like Galaxy 2 is much more replayable than the original. like, I could pop the game in and have a good time in about 2 minutes or so. the first game kind of sacrifices that replayable quality by having too many cinematic cutscenes -- I have the same issue with sunshine. mario games should be quick & easy to start
>mfw my childhood buddy and friend Mario falls into a fucking black hole of death
2 had tighter and tougher level design but there was still something special about 1. The atmosphere and music were better and there was a certain level of exploration that made the game exciting.
And I don't mean the levels were more open, it was more like I never knew what was coming next. Space ghosts and Boo Mario, visiting the Honeybee Kingdom for the first time, that toy box galaxy, braving Battlerock and later the Dreadnaught, the fact that the Luigi NG+ mode actually had a sort of plot to it, or even just the opening of Good Egg Galaxy for the first time or talking to a one penguins in a giant toilet beach, it all had a certain sense of scale and newness that SMG2 failed to recapture. Partially on sole merit of being a sequel, partially just because it went for a more "relaxed" atmosphere in general.
They're both wonderful games, though.
Overall, I'd say Galaxy is better. The presentation with Rosalina's storybook and all the details in Comet Observatory just made the game for me. Also, Galaxy 2 had a bit too many stupid gimmicks and 2D levels, while I prefer levels with some more space to explore, which Galaxy 1 had.
Galaxy had the better hubworld and better power-ups (Ice Mario in particular)
Galaxy 2 had far better post-game, plus the extra slides, throwback galaxy and the Road to Bowser as BGM.
But I've only 240/242-ed them each once and that was all over 5 years ago, so I can't really give them a proper comparrison
>Get to Bowser level in SMG
>Bowser's Road is back and it's god tier
>Bowser level in SMG2
>It got even better
Using a GOAT song like that on a 30 second fight where the noise drowns out the music should be a crime.
Galaxy it had boss battles that didn't make me quit the fucking game and it could be how my tastes changed over time, but I found the level design in Galaxy 2 to be abysmal. There was times I would stop and think how poorly designed and empty the levels were, and the hub world was garbage. Some of my favorite things about 3D Mario games
>old ass 64 tropes like open world level design
So you're saying that making a hallway platformer is now with the "times". I remember when bad level design wasn't applauded. It's like you think the other 3 were fucking Skyrim or something.
Someone should rip the SMG skyboxes because they are the prettiest ones I've ever seen. Especially the one in the lava galaxy where two suns are melting together.
But World S was disappointing as fuck: rehashed levels, gimmicks, and no final boss. Only a few parts of it were any fun.
That doesn't make any sense anyways, since Galaxy 1 had the extra Dome you could go to which is pretty much the equivalent to an extra world, and the green stars were the equivalent to replaying as Luigi(I'd say they're even worse, since most of them were annoying or total wastes of time compared to Galaxy still being good on a second playthrough).
>Bad level design
Right. 3D World and Galaxy 2 have better level design that all their prequels. Because with a linear level, you can focus more on placing carefully every single platform.
Sorry pal, but open levels aren't necessary well designed. Especially when they have shit put at random, hoping it sticks (see Sunshine).
I am glad Nintendo dropped the Sunshine and 64 formula. Fuck that stale as shit stuff.
SMG forgot the gameplay. The only stages that provide any bit of entertainment was the hotcoldman, desert and lava galaxies, everything else was just a dull cinematic experience or they took less than a minute to beat.
The really baffling part are those huge, empty galaxies that seem modeled after SM64... Except SMG is fucking linear. You can't wander around pick up different stars, so it's all pointless.
SMG2 on the other hand is the best 3D platformer of all time. Creative, fun and hard, vintage Mario.
Why did this game have such amazing atmosphere? Why don't other Mario games ever have it?
SMG2 was shorter and way more linear than SMG1 and it really didn't add anything very interesting to make up for it, besides Yoshi.
Galaxy 1 is better in my opinion, but Galaxy 2 is still great.
>They made a 3d game instead of a 2d game due to cartridge limitations
Both are amazing, but I feel like the second one kind of forgot that it was a GALAXY game. There are a lot of levels that aren't really space themed at all and a lot don't even have black holes sucking you up when you fall, gravity mechanics, or anything making you think you're in space. Sure you can argue the levels are "better designed" but I think ignoring the whole motif of the game is pretty fucking lame. Ignoring rosalina and her story and the final boss being lame also sucks.
I really wish both had capitalized on the gravity mechanics more though. Like having to orbit stuff to get around obstacles or build up speed to traverse/shoot to other things. The most fun I've ever had in any Mario game is trying to jump as far as I could off little worlds in Galaxy and seeing how many times I could fling back around. They really should've tried to do more with that because it was cool as shit.
OoT and Majora's Mask would've been a single game on the playstation
>Why did this game have such amazing atmosphere?
Why don't other Mario games ever have it?
It works when the levels are large and varied enough to warrant multiple visits. This is fine with levels like Tall Tall Mountain or Tick Tock Clock but is an absolute disaster in Whomp's Fortress or Dire Dire Docks.
Galaxy 1 had the initial wow factor, providing us with a brand new experience that was fun and creative in its approach despite it having some flaws in level design.
Galaxy 2 had the benefit of learning all of Galaxy 1's mistakes in level design at the cost of the extraneous experience it didn't carry over while also suffering from the been-there-done-that syndrome.
Both are equally good becuase fuck you I can have both.
You do have to factor that the Galaxies levels are also more concise than the large sprawls that 64 and Sunshine had, and that each Galaxy level had less overall stars to collect, instead subbing in the comet stars that played out over the same but with some extra condition/Where's Waldo shit
>3D world has better level design
FTFY. Galaxy 2 is trash compared to 3D world. 3D world is linear style 3D platforming done right. Is that why people can post pictures of Galaxy 1 and 2 with straight linear levels with almost NO enemies? I've never seen anyone be able to even remotely pull off that with Sunshine or 64. Yet surprise surprise everyone goes on massive damage control to show how shit Galaxy 1 and shit really were in regards to level design (mostly 2)
>64 is da best, can still play through the entire game
>-however, the camera isn't very good
>-also, the controls have flaws which can be annoying if you aren't well practiced.
>-jumps are more difficult to measure out in this game for me
>Sunshine is also good
the blue coins I enjoy hunting since I enjoy the game
>3D world is 4 player coop, and mario is more athletic than he is in the galaxy games. It's more forgettable than 64 and sunshine
>galaxy 1 and 2 are too linear for my taste, and mario is nerfed in them. I don't like the spin jump.
Ahh yes here comes the damage control. All those 100 cherrypicked shots am I right? The fact that there can even be cherrypicked shots reeks of absolute mediocre level design.
>thread about actual video games
>people are actually answering OP's question and discussing the relevant games without being assholes to each other
>people are also posting good music
Holy shit, it's a Christmas /v/ miracle.
I like both games a lot. They're the best 3D platformers ever made as far as I'm concerned.
Also you will never live on a comfy beach in the middle of space with a bunch of bro-tier penguins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdTN9jVEd7c
Okay, this really is bait.Thanks for answering.
Now take this shot of Mario Sunshine filled with enemies and platforming action and fuck off. I'm not feeding you anymore after this post.
The desert galaxy in SMG2 was kinda spooky if you looked around. You can't even see where those huge towers begin.
I honestly think these are the last not dissapointing games since they came out. Nintendo delivered and holy shit if they did. I cannot think of a way they could expand on Mario without having to retreat from these games.
I tear up every time the main theme comes up
You think that's bad compared to some of the galaxy screenshots. Oh am I fucking laughing. You see that's the thing not everything in the 3d Mario games was about platforming there was also an exploration element, but with Galaxy 2 there's none of that. This is a greatly designed level and I see nothing wrong with the picture you just stated. The main point of this level was to explore anyways which it succeeds at in every way.
>In SMG there were these giant chunks of land for you to run around)
No there really weren't.
You had Honeyhive Galaxy which really wasn't big enough to do anything and that's pretty much it
Ya mean this one?
>mfw it kicks in at the end of Nintendo World Championship right before the SMW End Credits Theme
Fucking hell man it's like a mix of how Christmas and Disney movies felt to me a long time ago
Where did everything go so wrong
>Doing purple coins in SMG1
>Even if you get them all you still have to go back and get the star before the timer runs out
>Luigi's Purple Coins
Why did they have to be 100 of these fucking things, 8 red coins was more than enough
>You grew up and became cynical and aware
growing up sucks
>I honestly think these are the last not dissapointing games since they came out.
For you maybe.
For me, I can think of Kid Icarus: Uprising, the Wonderful 101, Metal Gear Rising, Smash 4, Super Mario 3D World, DKC: TF, and Mario Kart 8.
>For me, I can think of Kid Icarus: Uprising, the Wonderful 101, Metal Gear Rising, Smash 4, Super Mario 3D World, DKC: TF, and Mario Kart 8.
Also I'm entirely aware of how much of a Nintendofag that makes me sound like, but there honestly hasn't been much else that met my expectations.
Maybe Resident Evil: Revelations 1 and 2, and E.X. Troopers.
>sound quality is far worse
>the control is janky as fuck
>stuck playing as faggy modernized Yoshi
>mario's powers are gimped, you are forced to run back and forth to switch between characters
>new worlds are welcomed but dull and barebones as fuck
>despite having a more polished and modern art style, it somehow looks slightly worse
Nah, 64 DS is alright but its flaws outweigh what it does right, the original is better.
If we got a 64 remake that didn't modernize the designs, tried to look like the old renders in HD, and made the extra characters totally optional, it would be a the definitive version.
Last Mario games I played were on the SNES, but looking at those 2 on youtube, holy shit can you disable the voices? Mario going "yahoo, yeee, haaa" every time you do anything is annoying as fuck. I might play them if you can disable it.
I wish he was working on Zelda again. He made Majora's Mask so special.
I'm still upset how Wired fucked SMG2 by telling Miyamoto that Koizumi was planning to add some form of story to the game behind his back.
He makes such special games.
Galaxy 2 was better.
> there are people in this thread RIGHT NOW who haven't beaten The Perfect Run
> they probably go on rants about casuals in other threads when they're too casual to finish a decent challenge for platformer fans
>mfw I'm the only one in my group of friends that actually did it
I didn't complete perfect run because it was boring and tedious
champion's road however? fucking sublime
i liked both but i preferred galaxy 1. it felt fresher, it had larger levels and more impressive set-pieces, overall the scope was larger. galaxy 2 was cleverly designed but it definitely felt like it was made on a reduced budget and designed to re-use as many assets as possible.
i also think that the level design started to get a bit formulaic in galaxy 2
Not fucking doesn't, I'd rather play a good game a second time than play a shitty version of a game. The green stars were a huge waste of time, only like 5 of them were at all challenging to get or find and most were incredibly lazily placed. Seriously, it blows my fucking mind that people defend them.
Daily reminder that Galaxy 1 is almost 10 years old.
>Rosalina has been a Mario character for almost 10 years
>there are people who think she's in every game for no reason
But champion's road is more tedious than the perfect run
You really got me, anon.
No. I hate the constant interruptions.
>Beat a level
>Fly back to base
>Have your star bits counted
>Have your coins counted
>Ask if you wanna save
>Go back to the level select and restart
And that's the optimal scenario. That doesn't account for Rosalina making sure you know that Luigi's around, or that fat purple Luma showing you his toy collection again.
In 3D World, you beat a level, you save, then you start the next one.
>I'm still upset how Wired fucked SMG2 by telling Miyamoto that Koizumi was planning to add some form of story to the game behind his back.
On one hand I think Galaxy 2 benefited from the lack of story since part of its appeal was how streamlined it was compared to the first but that had better not be the reason
Super Mario 64
>highest skill ceiling
>the most impressive graphics for its time
>mario was still charming, they didn't ruin his design yet
>most intimidating bowser
>I think Galaxy 2 benefited from the lack of story
I think Miyamoto saw what happened to Sonic and is now terrified of adding plot to Mario. Or he didn't even see Sonic but knows somehow that it's a bad idea.
Sonic turned to shit because the foundation of its existence was trying to be cool which never ages well and gave us Ow the Edge
which I actually kinda likeand Sonic '06.
Something like Rosalina's story is timeless
What a minor thing to complain about. 10 seconds of tallying up all you've accomplished in a vast 3D World filled with shit to do isn't worth it because you don't get instant gratification?
No. 3D World takes 10 seconds to move from the end of one level to the start of the next. Either Galaxy game takes upwards of a minute each to move from the end of one stage to the beginning of the next. If you're a completionist, then for both games, there will be a total of 4 hours between both games where you're not actually playing the game and simply trying to get started on the next level. That is not acceptable.
Overall, but some parts of Sunshine are harder.
>highest skill ceiling
Very true, Mario controls perfectly in that game
Yes, and it worked.
Are there linear 3D Marios besides G2? 3DS/Wii U shovelware doesn't count
>the most impressive graphics for its time
>mario was still charming, they didn't ruin his design yet
He looked pretty much the same, he was just a little chubbier and shorter.
>most intimidating bowser
Fuck yeah. If only he looked this great in future games.
I dunno. Its music was really good, I'll give it that.
It lakes literally one second to walk to the next level, not 10. Transitions from level to level in 3D Mario aren't long at all, if you feel they are you probably have severe OCD.
SMG2 had a lot less atmosphere, and all-in-all less worth remembering. It felt very disjointed and 3D World-y. Just a string of random "galaxies" that were mostly weird objects suspended against backgrounds.
I like SMG1 more because it feels more like an experience.
Galaxy is basically "Muh safe open world experience"
Galaxy 2 went with actual ideas for platforming and good level design that never repeats itself unless for good reason
Compared to Galaxy's 20 million purple coin missions
3D World following in Galaxy 2's level design was even better because they made the ideas first, then designed the levels around it
Then why'd he make Bowser a hunchbacked old man than scooted on his belly and had massive gums?
At least Smash 4 Bowser is great. Give Sm4sh Bowser his Mario & Luigi voice and personality and he'd be the best incarnation yet.
>I honestly consider them both 2 halves of a full game
This. It's like people who talk about Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles as if they're different games.
Sure, it's not the same story with Galaxy and Galaxy 2, but Galaxy 2 is about as close to an expansion pack as you can get with Console games.
Galaxy 1 had better pacing and felt like an experience
Galaxy 2 was the seconds that end up being better because you just want to have fun with the concept this time rather than have another experience
Dedede's voice was absolutely perfect in Brawl. It was the same voice he used for Kirby 64.
In Smash 4 though, he went way overboard with the voice effect and it ended up overly monstrous.
Yes he does.
And if you mean he doesn't have a voice, he makes grunts and such as well.
> it definitely felt like it was made on a reduced budget and designed to re-use as many assets as possible.
Galaxy 2 in general was the EAD team going
>We finished the game but there's still all these ideas we came up with
and the quality was fucking great, better than Galaxy 1 sometimes
Like Bowser Levels, FUCKING ORCHESTRATED KOOPA ROAD
was a fuck load better than Galaxy 1's techno
>i also think that the level design started to get a bit formulaic in galaxy 2
How the fuck did it get formulaic? The entire positives about Galaxy 2 was that it never repeated anything and did something new every level
That design will never be bad even if it is formuliac
12 large densely packed 3d exploration worlds, with dynamic variations etc etc making up 120 (+ secret) stars to collect.
There needs to be more cohesiveness, like you're making big changes. This one-off half-level linear stuff belongs with the 2d titles
i consider them equals
galaxy set the trend and the story, and galaxy 2 refined the formula
they both have their own flaws, as well
the comet observatory had a much greater feeling of scope and aesthetic appeal, and you had a much greater feeling of control over where you got to go, but it was kinda empty
the starship mario looks a good bit more boring, and has that godforsaken world map, but has the neat little touch of letting you talk to some of the characters you've met before
galaxy 2 has a fairly well-made finale with grandmaster, but it doesn't have that congratulating feel that galaxy does, and grand finale looks much better aesthetically
storybook vs. green stars is personal choice, i can dig both
2 is stronger in terms of pure level design, but is also has more straightforward stages well 1 has more 64-ish ones, not as open as 64, but closer to that concept.
They also have different feels to them. SMG uses color colors and has more dark space, or high orbit like background, combined with opening with Bowser leading an all out invasion in his airships, Mario hangs out with a goddess-like being it all gives it a very grand atmosphere.
SMG2's giant sized Bowser and greater use of the brighter colors and Mario hanging out with a bunch of misfits on his ship all leads to a more fairy tale feel.
Oh jesus this is making me so happy
>She twisted the knob of the telescope, and the blue dot grew until she could make out a grassy hill dotted with flowers. It seemed very familiar to her. Zooming even closer, a terrace on the hill came into view. "I used to go stargazing there when I lived on my home planet."
>She remembered rubbing the sleep out of her eyes as she followed her father up that hill to look at the stars...
>She remembered how she and her brother would sled down that hill...
>She remembered having picnics with her mother on that hill on bright and windy days... And...
Maybe I'm biased because I play clarinet but this might be the most beautiful piece of music put in any video game
And no I'm not exaggerating. Someone please prove me wrong.
>"I want to go home! I want to go home right now!" The girl burst into tears, and the Lumas didn't know what to do.
>"I want to go home! I want to go back to my house by the hill! I want to see my mother!" The girl was shouting now, her face wet with tears.
>"But I know she's not there! I knew all along that she wasn't out there in the sky! Because...because..."
>"She's sleeping under the tree on the hill!" The girl's cries echoed through the stars, and a hush fell over the area.
Jesus, I was not expecting that shit in a Mario game.
I still liked it.
The only problem I had in the late game was the battle with
Disciple Lorithia, but even then I eventually just needed to switch my party around for that. The combat didn't feel bad to me at all, I don't know man.
I'm almost done with the game, too. I'm at the top of the final dungeon going to fight a certain
Dicksonbut I love everything about the game so far.
Koji Kondo>>>these Galaxy losers
And the Galaxy music seemed so unfitting for Mario
When I heard SMB1/3/World Remixes in them I found myself saying "Finally some Real Mario Music"
But Sunshine is the best 3D Mario game hands down desu senpai
No just no nigger
Sonic 3 and Knuckles was one game from the beginning that got split in to 2 games because of a 34meg cartridge being too expensive to produce and that they would have to sell it to kids for 100 bucks(like they did with Phantasy Star 4) and parents wouldn't buy it for their kids
Galaxy 1 and 2 are completely separate games on the other hand
Galaxy 1 and 2 are like Sonic 1 and 2
The Koopalings never interested me enough to care
I ignore future material regarding Rosalina's past the same way I do Square's FF7 compilation. Yes I know it exists, but it doesn't prevent me from going back to the original and appreciating what it was before subsequent bastaridzation.
SMG2 is way better. It lacks the hub flavor of the original, but the levels are better and feel like you can explore more, Cloud Mario shits all over the terribly conceived powerups in the first game, the Green Stars are more fun, and the music is better.
I liked Galaxy 2 more.
I think part of it is I went into SMG1 expecting a new 64/Sunshine and got a big pile of shit instead. So I went into SMG2 expecting a polished turd and was actually really surprised by how much I enjoyed it.
Expectations change a lot.
The Comet Observatory passes by the Earth every hundred years (which is established in the game's intro, not the storybook) and she made a promise to herself to nap in her favorite spot when that happens. It doesn't forbid her from hanging out with Mario in her free time. Maybe she visits more often now that she has friends
Oh okay then, cool. Thanks for clearing that up.
2 is the better game, but I remember 1 more. 1 had many memorable Galaxies, and was fucking amazing the first time through. 2 is more replayable and puts up a challenge, but the first time around I wasn't thinking "damn, this is better than the first". I was thinking "I'm so happy there is more Galaxy to play".
Sunshine was shitty compared to 64, Galaxy was so shit compared to both I was blown away, especially because the trailers made it look really fun.
Entire game felt like a chore the first time through. No memorable areas at all.
No you don't understand what I'm saying at all
Sonic 3 and Knuckles was one game from the beginning
They split it into two games because of cost/time development
It's completely different from Galaxy 1 and 2's situations
Galaxy 1 and 2 were never meant to be "one single game" at any point
And btw Sonic 3/Sonic and Knuckles can stand on their own just fine...they're both better than Sonic 1 and 2
It can't not be Galaxy tier because Galaxy's gameplay consists of jump timings, and that's about it. There's nothing spectacular about it and it's why smart people get bored of Mario after growing up.
Galaxy 2. 1 had better overall ambience, from aesthetic to music to even storyline, but 2 had better level design and difficulty curve, and a platformer lives and dies by its gameplay more than anything else.