>>315597129 >up to four players simultaneous free-for-all multiplayer >Basic Four button set-up (Attack, Special, Grab, and Shield. Hell, could even be a THREE BUTTON GAME if you shield-jab to grab.) >Let me reiterate, there is a button for Blocking >Platforming >items
Right, because all of that is closer to fighting games than beat-em-ups. In whatever weird world you live in.
>>315597594 Is that your only retort? That it's not PvE? Go play adventure mode or Subspace Emissary. Those are straight beat-em-ups. Just because the main draw of the game is competitive multiplayer and not co-operative multiplayer doesn't just make it not a beat-em-up anon.
>>315597482 What combos are there in Smash Bros? None, you're just using moves in succession, not a combination input. Fighter wasn't a pre-determined genre until games were made that have a similar style.
>>315597765 They aren't combos if the input doesn't allow for a specific action to follow the combonation. That's like saying 'I just input random numbers into my combination lock, it works just as well'.
>>315597736 >Is that your only retort? Looks like you didn't even read my entire one sentence reply. If you had understood what being similar to actual beat-em-ups implies you would understand the difference.
>Go play adventure mode or Subspace Emissary. Those are straight beat-em-ups Multiplayer is the primary gamemode of smash bros. Even if it wasn't, those game modes are not similar to beat-em-ups. For one thing, beat-em-ups as a genre feature free, isometric movement, not locked sidescrolling like in fighters.
Pikachu. It changed a lot since I first played the game (Ice climbers, Samus, Fox and Link were all characters I mained for a while), but in the end Pikachu was the one who ended up fitting me as a player. Which is kind of funny because he's half the reason I ever played the game in the first place. Tailspiking is my favorite thing to do. It's just so satisfying. Where my Pikabros at?
>>315598127 Different poster, actually. Don't you get embarrassed posting like this? Do you really think you are presenting a good argument with a position of "I guess I am right because I am not acknowledging your reply."? It'd be one thing if other posters were intentionally trying to skirt around your primary objections, but you are getting direct replies to your central point.
>>315598123 And fighting games, as a genre, feature health bars, and only two players. See, I can make up rules to fit my narrative too anon.
I understand your point, but just because there isn't depth on the ground for isometric movement, (to make it EXACTLY like the games you mentioned, you fucking annoying stickler), doesn't make any of the other statements not true. And also, it has Platforms for upward and downward movement, as opposed depth-based movement. Basically replacing that aspect of the game with one that vertical instead of horizontal. So what about the items, simple inputs, blocking button, platforming and multiple players? Those are all features from Beat-em-ups, not fighting games.
I main Link partly because he's one of the few characters I can somewhat control (and only after hours of practice); I can't shorthop with most characters for the life of me and I am very slow at pressing buttons. I'm working on it but I've been playing for ages and I can't even keep up with L cancels and I rarely have time to input a fastfall. And I don't wavedash n stuff.
What are some other characters that are easy to play?
>>315599440 >I can't shorthop with most characters for the life of me I feel you. I've been practicing and I'm having a lot of trouble doing it consistently. The lightest of taps as quickly as possible still seems to give me a full hop most of the time. The most consistent I can get is when I just sort of slide my thumb over the jump button so it just barely registers an input, but this often leads to not jumping at all and it's difficult to get an aerial in after doing it. I'll keep practicing, I guess. My goal is to get 50 shorthops in a row without missing one.
>>315599073 >See, I can make up rules to fit my narrative too anon. That's moving the goalposts though. You're also assuming that I am arguing that super smash bros is a traditional fighter, which I am not, so posting specific definitions of what makes a fighting game a fighting game does not prove right your assertion that super smash bros is a beat-em-up. Super smash bros being dissimilar from beat-em-ups should be the primary focus here.
I think not having the movement plane of a beat-em-up is a huge reason why it doesn't fit the criteria. Movement and perspective are by and large what separates genres from other genres. >Basically replacing that aspect of the game with one that vertical instead of horizontal. That would make it a platformer. I don't think it would be wrong to point out how much smashbros has in common with platformers when trying to define what genre it fits into, but platforming is not an aspect of beat-em-ups. It's also worth noting that vertical movement is an important part of any fighter with aerial attacks, like MvC2. >So what about the items, simple inputs, blocking button, platforming and multiple players? Those are all features from Beat-em-ups, not fighting games. Soul Calibur featured Button Blocking, so I don't really believe that button blocking makes a game no longer a fighting game. Simple inputs is kind of a non-argument in terms of genre, as complexity of gameplay is not what makes a game fit a genre or not, it;'s style of gameplay. As for items, platforming, and 2+ players, I agree that those are unorthodox for a fighting game, but the larger criteria of genre are vastly different from beat-em-ups, and saying that having some elements makes smash a beat-em-up is like saying that Portal is not an FPS because it doesn't have guns and healthbars.
Link and Captain Falcon. I basically just wanted to see how far I could get with link and I'm pleasantly surprised so far. Sadly I think I do best against people who don't know the matchup. I tend to get figured out mid set.
>>315600208 Yeah, my buddy who mains Link has this problem. We go to locals and he does okay, but whenever we go to anything serious he may start strong, but link's moves are easily predictable and aren't very diverse. He is probably the best link I've seen in person, but still can get shit on by an average Fox.
>>315600084 I'm trying from the opposite side now, flicking the left side of the button with the inner side of my thumb and I'm getting it a bit more consistently. Still failing to get jumps sometimes but I think I could do it with a lot of practice. Although an approaching/retreating nair seems impossible.
>>315600336 Yeah he's ultimately just too slow I think to really be effective. His up B out of shield is just so fucking satisfying though. >tfw shielding a fox usmash and following it up with up B People get real surprised by how far that sends them.
>>315600004 Well, yes, it's the single-player mode that unlocks all the characters. It's a pretty central part of the game unless you and your friends, oh who am I kidding, unless you want to play bots for literally days.
>>315599931 >moving the goalposts though Yes, I was putting them back. You're the one who was setting arbitrary rules, saying a game has to basically be Streets of Rage to be a beat-em-up.
>it's also worth noting that vertical movement is an important part of any fighter Yes, which is why actual fighting games have no platforms and balance the characters so that everyone, when standing on a literal even playing field, is nearly evenly matched.
>Simple inputs is kind of a non-argument in terms of genre, Here's where you're pretty wrong. For example, games like Castle Crashers have no real input strains outside of "press button AND direction and your attack is different". So, in a manner identical to Smash, Beat-em-ups don't require stuff like 236p, rather Tilt-p is enough of an input for all the variance in moves you'll have. Going back to Castle Crashers for this example, also, literally two attack buttons in Smash. Like a beat-em-up. Not to mention blocking in a 2D game with a button is unheard of, unless it's a beat-em-up.
Also, for the record, you're severely misinformed. Portal is a fucking Puzzle game before it is even close to being an FPS. the Shooting isn't nearly as central as the Puzzling
>>315599073 >So what about the items, simple inputs, blocking button, platforming and multiple players?
>Items What about them? They are not used.
>simple inputs Elaborate?
>Blocking button Other fighting games have this. Don't see your point.
>Platforming Pretty much required for a movement based fighter that has aerial attacks. Again what exactly about this feature renders it not a fighting game?
>Multiple players So the game has a 2v2 mode, that isn't even taken that seriously when compared to 1v1. Is Quake not a FPS game because the most popular mode is 1v1 where other games tend to favour 5v5?
>>315601773 >they are not used See, if they never included an item availability setting in the game, would people even be considering it a fighting game? Would it even be played competitively? Would it have ever been at EVO? The realistic answer leans heavily to no.
>simple inputs Beat-em-ups don't require stuff like 236p, rather Tilt-p is enough of an input for all the variance in moves you'll have.
>don't see your point Tell me a well-received 2D fighting game with a block button.
>Pretty much required for a movement based fighter that has aerial attacks Yeah, except those don't have literal platforms making the stages asymetrical.
>So the game has a 2v2 mode And a free-for-all mode you're totally forgetting about that is in no way at all competitive and the actual main draw of the game, also the mode it drops you into initially.
>>315602219 How is that wrong? There are two actual attack actions. A and B. "Z" is a shortcut, for shielding and pressing A. C-stick is a shortcut for pressing A simultaneously with a direction. Please, enlighten me to the function of this third attack button you've come across.
>>315602606 >See, if they never included an item availability setting in the game, would people even be considering it a fighting game? Does it matter? I think if you're argument is based on hypotheticals then you've already proven how shit your argument is. Especially when almost every other competitive game comes with different rulesets, modes, modifiers, mods and settings. Items are not part of competitive Smash.
>Beat-em-ups don't require stuff like 236p, rather Tilt-p is enough of an input for all the variance in moves you'll have. You wanna elaborate? If you have an argument about why simple inputs doesn't make a game a fighting game then please put it forward.
>Yeah, except those don't have literal platforms making the stages asymetrical. I don't know any other movement based fighters that don't have platforms. There's also a reason it's only symmetrical stages used.
>And a free-for-all mode you're totally forgetting about that is in no way at all competitive and the actual main draw of the game, also the mode it drops you into initially. Again irrelevant. I am pretty sure fps games stay fps games despite how many of them put you into shit modes by default that nobody in the competitive scene plays. You can bitch about shit that nobody actually plays in a competitive setting all you want but it really doesn't change anything does it? People are not going to drop Quake because of FFA are they?
>How is that wrong? How can LP vs MP be any different from fair vs bair? It's not. Both instances require completely different button presses. If you're going to be a pedantic retard and try claim that having your two inputs mapped to a stick somehow removes melees ability to be a fighting game then I don't know what to say to you other than go study some other games nigga.
>>315598028 For ganon, don't fastfall -> L cancel your aerials like up air and bair. You can throw those out from a short hop and have them end before you hit the ground so you have no lag. It's way quicker that way.
>>315603160 Ice Climbers aren't just about execution though. They're kinda abstract. Contrary to popular belief wobbling isn't super free. At low or mid levels yes but at high levels people will have a good idea on how to separate the climbers or mash out below 30%. Desyncs are pretty good to learn. I'm pretty sure that Fly Amanita has some good guide to them on Smashboards.
>>315605524 nobody ever thought smash was intended to be competitive, you fucking troglodyte, it's why melee players hate sakurai so much >shiggy diggy skyrim sex simulator yeah alright give me some solid evidence of the percentage of skyrim's player base that would actually fucking admit to having used it as one
>>315605686 >nobody ever thought smash was intended to be competitive, But someone must have, because they insisted that the genre of the game is fighting game, when clearly, that isn't what it was designed as.
>>315605895 alright let's get something straight street fighter isn't a fighting game either. it's a two-player platform game where players use moves in a 2D plane that cause no visible damage or scarring to their opponents. there's no consequence for losing except what the players make of it (bragging rights, e-sport competitions, etc.) and anyone who takes it seriously is autistic
>>315605936 >Something added to the game afterwards by fans =/= a toggleable option that was in the game when it released Yes, I understand that, but it's literally the easiest analogy to make when you're shifting the focus of the game THAT MUCH through the option of removing items.
Also, yes, me, the guy who has not been insulting people while getting called names, is the guy who is mad. Where does that make sense?
Anyway, to give this argument a final point, Smash is a beat-em-up because it draws more from beat-em-ups than fighting games. They have gone on record saying this game, The Outfoxies was a huge inspiration. Skip in, watch a little, and tell me, wholeheartedly, that this is a fighting game, and not some Versus Beat-em-up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lxapXSAijw
>>315606691 Nobody is arguing that the game you posted is a fighting game.
The reason you seem so mad to me is because you are so insistent that people understand that under no means is smash a fighting game. Your opinion on what genre it falls into doesn't matter. Even if everyone agreed that it was a party game, that wouldn't fundementally change the games mechanics. It would still be played competitively.
Basically you are fucking infuriated that someone mentioned melee and 3S in the same sentence as fighting games, causing you to go on to disrupt a thread where people just wanted to discuss the game over your autistic need to argue semantics that don't matter relative to discussion about the gameplay in anyway.
>>315608886 ok choose a character go to training mode do the combos the quickest way possible and come from every angle and every way you can. Learn how to make the moves faster and the combos faster
Now do the same thing in 2x the speed practice and then after that you should be super speedy at 1/1
Go get 20xx and spam abilities practice running up to the guy shielding then power shielding then wavedashing into shielding Then make the dude down smash continuously and learn to wavedash away from it and if you do attacks to disrupt them and then learn to grab that person and do the combo shit and 0-100 them.
Then you should practice di which you press the control stick in different ways to control your velocity of the char hitting you. Find what you think is the best for your char and then after that when you get hit hit l right after you get hit and it will decrease the velocity by 5 10%
Then after this go to the hardest mode and do the combos on all enemies in the game. rinse repeat and ur golden.
Also get an infinite shield code for player 2 and then practice attacking the shield as fast as possible if you do it correctly you should be able to 0-100 people if you do it correctly Also use all abilties you got on the shield use your quickest attacks to the shield then grab after
Also do combos like fast attack to grab or grab to fast attack. Combine everything.
>>315608886 I'm happy to say that the techinical aspect isn't as hard as many people make it out to be. On the highest level? Yeah obviously it is, and even then it depends on the character played as far as how intensive the techskill will be. But if you just want to be able to play against your friends or netcode with /v/ on a level above >total fuckign casul, all you need to do is practice l-canceling. Flirt with trying to wavedash after you understand how to l-cancel. Besides that it helps to watch good players, and it helps even more to play good players. Doing these to things will really help you to understand combo theory. If you do that I promise that in time you'll feel a bit more confident and if you really want to get seriou you can get in the lab and really practice your techskill.
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