Legion is expected to release on or before 09/21/2016. This is not a release date.
>they can't possibly pull another year long raid tier
Yep, they just did.
Now it makes PERFECT sense why they wont release any more sub numbers.
What face did you make when you let your sub run out Onii-chan?
>blizz announces they're no longer posting subscription numbers
>a few days later reveals another year long raid.tier
If this doesn't cut subscriber numbers AT LEAST in half I'll be fucking surprised
I mean it's probably the reason why they aren't releasing sub numbers, which imo is a pretty fucking vital part of their business model, and a key indicator into the health of the game
But like...fuck me right?
Wait. What? Is this serious? Another year long raid tier? How can they do that? I was sick of it after the first run. How can anyone justify this? What the fuck? I cant comprehend what I'm seeing here.
>subs at 9 year low
>state they are no longer releasing subscription numbers
>another year+ content drought for final tier in the worst expansion ever
I-it's not like subs are dropping, it's just that with release of WoW Tokens™ those numbers would be innacurate goy
I wish Final Fantasy XI would do this. I miss the game dearly but I don't want to grind back up. If they would let me start again with 1 fully leveled job, 1 job at sub job level cap, and a boost to all skills so I'm not a level 99 warrior running around with 1 in everything, I would be over that in the blink of an eye.
I wonder if they actually used the Token sales and replaced lost sub numbers with the token conversion into what would have been Subs
I could absolutely see blizzard being as disingenuous as that
"oh no, it gives us a much easier metric to understand what is happen at the business end of WoW"
They honestly are the biggest liars in the business
Holy shit I bet they do count them as well. I never really thought about that
Fuck all ways to progress your character outside of raids
and fuck all content outside of 3 fucking raids.
No new bg's.
like only 6 fucking dungeons
zero content outside of raids.
Fantastic piece of shit.
And people waited 14 months through Siege of Orgrimmar for it.
Then they had to shell out 10 bucks extra, and then they pay a sub fee for what was a 1 patch expansion.
All the while getting jewed by actiblizz via the stores for mounts.
Top kek. so glad I don't play anymore.
FFXI sorta does do that. The current RoV expansion gives you a bunch of key items, that provide MASSIVE exp boosts, increase skillup rate and ease up or outright remove certain mandatory quests (no more item farming for subjob quest, for example).
When you consider at least 1/4 of those sub numbers are in China, it makes the numbers look even worse
I would say at most there are 3.5 million US/EU players subscribed.
There is no stopping the rot imo, unless something insane happens. WoW 2 different engine and transfer of characters over automatically or something
Yeah they count them towards sub numbers. I mean it's still 30 days of game time being used for an extra $5.
Why do people still believe Blizzard exists? They haven't for years.
It's activision now, activision.
And they just bought out the candy crush saga devs for 6 billion, so there's that to look forward to.
At this point this is probably the best Blizzard can do.
Legion needs to be fucking huge to not disappoint.
But knowing Blizzard they can have all the time the want and still disappoint us.
>mfw people will forever pull the "it was 10 years old, of course it would fail" card in response to why wow died
>I was incredibly upset when Guild Wars 2 had a content drought for 9 months
>WoWfags are going to have a 15 month content drought
raids (big dungeons with bosses) are the only content people can do to get meaningful loot.
If they don't release a new raid (with different bosses) people get bored of killing the same bosses over and over.
If a new raid gives loot that is better than the old loot, it is said to be a new tier.
Last expansion it was 14 months without content, and after all that time waiting WoD was released with the most cut content of any expansion, people ran out of things to do after the first month.
More proof that the expansion model is inherently bad for MMORPGs, by not only cutting off the meaning of earlier content, it also forces players to only have a set amount of content available to them until the next expansion, forcing developers to shit content out faster.
Maybe if there weren't a raised level cap, and they just released additional areas for free, while maintaining the subscription fee. I don't know, but the expansion bullshit is the main reason WoW has failed.
>Spend time working to get your raid gear
>Recent patch drops
>Players who don't raid now get raid-level equipment from bullshit dailies etc
This is the reason why I quit WoW, things like Timeless Isle and Tanaan Jungle ruined the game.
WoD came out Novemember 2014
The last major content patch was in June
We'll just say roughly that it'll come out in "September 2016" since that's their ballpark
Vanilla to BC: 26 months
BC to WOTLK: 22 months
WOTLK to Cata: 25 Months
Cata to MoP: 22 months
MoP to WoD: 25 months
WoD to Legion: 24 months
Now in terms of last MAJOR content patch to start of new expansions
Vanilla to BC: 7 months
BC to WOTLK: 7 months
WOTLK to Cata: 12 months
Cata to MoP: 10 months
MoP to WoD: 14 months
WoD to Legion: 15 months
Vanilla > BC > pre nerfed Cata > MoP > Wrath > WoD
both Wrath and Wod were extremly shit expansions and both killed wow in retrospect. Wrath with the piss easy 5 mans and horrible story and Wod with no content and the garrison.
They confirmed they do a while back. If not for the ability to pay with gold subs would have tanked harder. No longer giving sub numbers is a clear indication they project it will never go back higher than 5.5 million.
You get points for noting pre nerf cata was good. But I'm going to dock you for wrath.
It was the best expo in terms of content and no one seems to acknowledge that launch wrath heroics were hard (not tbc hard but hard) they just got out scaled with time only the post lfg 5mans were designed to be aoed.
Paying for a character to level up to 100 is so shitty in a subcription based mmo. It's like saying that the work of people who leveled up their char is nothing. Fuck Blizzard I hope they die.
Correction, it's BEEN done for about half a year now. Looking at one and a half years of no content while paying a monthly subscription, I have to wonder just how retarded Blizzdrones are at this point.
I honestly can't believe this.
I always stop playing in the content drought of the expansions (vanilla was the only exception because I wasn't a raider), though I quit WoD early because it was shit. How could they possibly think letting it go another year is okay? Yeah if you loo at the numbers you posted most of them are only a few months off, but there is so little fucking content in WoD that even the casuals must be done with it already. And not "well they didn't do mythic", well, if they're casual they're not doing mythic and guilds that can do mythic are probably done already or bored. Two fucking tiers and nothing decent on the overworld this time around is...It's impossible to say just how disappointed this makes me.
>Launch wrath heroics were hard
LOOK AT THIS MAN AND LAUGH AT HIM
Holy shit how can you even think that, let alone claim that, in any serious capacity?
Wrath was the start of casualizing everything, launched with the worst raid lineup in ever (recycled Naxx which was too easy, Malygos was fucking shit) Dalaran is a fraction of the size of Shattrath, no interesting factions whatsoever, daily shit up the ass where you spend more time traveling back and forth than doing the content.
Wrath still did a lot right, to be sure, but it was also the expansion in which they completely and utterly killed what was left of the story with so much retarded bullshit it beggars belief. This in turn ruined any sense of atmosphere and tension the world used to have, which ultimately ruined the fucking RPG side of the fucking game.
Less content than expack before or after
Same 10ppl and 25 ppl raids but with different cd
Only 2 good boss fights in the entire expack(even WoD has more)
Most of people who played since vanilla and bc left during wotlk for good reason
>even when they restrict expansions to one content patch they still can't meet their yearly expansion goal
WoD was such a disappointment they should give those who bought it a discount on Legion.
It went downhill since WotLK but it still had the stories, the people and the overall atmosphere, it made sense to nerf group content since there weren't many people around anymore which was certainly a detriment, but didn't entirely ruin it.
Neo Blizzard just completely fails whenever they try to redesign their old shit, seen with the world in Cata and seen with the models in WoD
>talks about pre-nerf cata while neglecting pre-TOC wrath
All I need to do is point out you haven't made a single argument to support your retarded claim, and I think we both know why that is.
Wrath was shit, and only people who hopped on during it claim it was the best.
>Undead horde, threatens everything, sent several huge invasions across the world
>Still hasn't cleaned up the trolls in their back yard
>Controls less than half of the actual continent
>The whole plot behind the undead being weak as shit is that they were "preparing" you to be the worlds most elite fighting force
>The Lich King obviously couldn't do that AFTER you were killed and controlled
>Even though this "elite fighting force" could be made up entirely out of undead players
But we all know it's not just the story
>Introduced time-gates on raids
>What the fuck was up with the awful vehicle mechanics
>Had an entire content patch revolving around that shit with the retarded argent crusade
>Barely any interesting factions, no interesting storylines
>Went the entire expansion without finishing crystalsong
I could go on for quite a bit more, but you're really not worth the effort.
If it hadn't been for Ulduar it would've been one of the worst expansions. They hadn't fucked the class mechanics yet and the classic world was still intact so it doesn't reach Cata or WoD status.
It was bad, not terrible, it was the start of the rapid downhill trend.
Another huge issue was the constantly going back to farm the same dungeon tokens every time there was a major patch, because it was either that or hope you get lucky in raid drops that generally required you to farm the same raid for months to get everyone geared, especially with there being no optional gear through crafting anymore.
Even back in BC you still had the shadow resist sets for BT, but gutting elemental damage/resists is one of the things that apparently went under the radar in people's opinion on Wrath.
ICC had you wait several weeks before going to the next room in the raid, basically locking you to three bosses per month because Blizzard was still butthurt about their Naxx rehash being destroyed in less than a week.
I see what you mean now, thanks. I started in beta Vanilla and stopped in BC when sunwell came out. I played a WOTLK private server but never had the experience of playing as the content was coming out.
>They hadn't fucked the class mechanics yet and the classic world was still intact so it doesn't reach Cata or WoD status.
This. WOTLK might have sowed the seeds, but Cata and WoD were full steps backward. They left the game worse than when they started, and I'm still salty about the talent changes. That's why I'd put them lower.
The MoP talent system change was too much for me. I got a kick out of agonizing over how I spent every talent point, I can't have been the only one.
Not bitter, I now have time to do things that aren't playing a single video game.
I can at least appreciate the attempt to fix healing they had in Cata, Paladin was initially great until they nerfed them right back to holy light spamming and the priest chakra system was amazing.
Of course, people were too retarded to pick up on the changes so everything got nerfed (seriously people kept stacking haste in early cata, which was literally detrimental to your ability to effectively heal, because that's how it was done in Wrath!)
No. For all the cool things that vanilla and BC did, I hated their hybrid balancing, their questing, and their communities with a passion. The selling point of WoW when it released was that it was the 'casual' MMO and yet it was still grindy as fuck and far less entertaining than games like UO were because at least in UO you got to do what you wanted instead of grinding shit tier fetch quests forever.
When you're level 100 in WoW with good gear, are you able to go back to previous raid locations that took like 20+ level60 dudes to complete and do it solo?
That must be an awesome feeling. Do you get bonuses for doing it by yourself?
>are you able to go back to previous raid locations that took like 20+ level60 dudes to complete and do it solo?
>That must be an awesome feeling
It really isn't, you just blast through everything that used to take a big group of people working as a team to clear
>Do you get bonuses for doing it by yourself?
desu old talent system died when they made it so you couldn't pick 2nd tree until you were 51 points deep in your primary one
all because people were butthurt pallies were running 41/30 protection/holy spec in arenas
>it's a multiplier to your damage based on how much higher level you are than the instance.
That's stupid. I don't really play WoW, I've only really played a bit on private servers years ago, but I imagine that I would like to feel like my character is genuinely as strong as 20+ lv60 dudes if I made it to the super end game.
That's disappointing. I would've assumed there was going to be an achievement for it.
Legitimately or is there a catch? I have no idea if that is ever intended to be done solo or not.
>I got a kick out of agonizing over how I spent every talent point, I can't have been the only one.
It's nice when you level up. Looking over all the options deciding what to pick and pursue. New system is just better at max level. They could have both systems at the same time though.
Felt bad man
I didn't want it to happen but I knew it was for the best.
It felt putting your dog to sleep when they get too old and sick to live.
Vanilla had this charm to it that most prior MMO's didn't, and while TBC fixed a lot of shit and felt like a genuine improvement, Vanilla probably had the best "base" experience of any MMO to date, and the social aspect of it was a lot more involved, especially if you found even just a completely average guild
let's see the list shall we
>cash shop mounts
>cash shop item skins
>cash shop pets
and the newest member to the family
>early access class
in a game with a monthly fee and full game costing expansions which provide less and less content every time
>early access for digital deluxe
What the fuck? This is what I get for buying CE, mainly for the artbook/soundtrack?
WoW is shit, but the sound and art department are still way too talented, for the rest of blizzard.
Now I can't play my meme hunter a week early. Fuck you blizzard.
Didn't they do the same with WoD, if you per-ordered with digital deluxe, you can buy a CE and use that code, then resell the DD key (no refund). Hopefully they do that again.
Normal mode=content for pugs
HM and achievements = content for well organized raid
I fucking killed general with people we found in the chat on my alt, this is how easy raid was
Only one good boss fight, and even then Sara was only hard because gear check
Compare if the the Muru who was hard because highly random factor
>Early access to a fucking class 1 week before the supposed release date
>SoO all over again, 15 months!
Time to light a cig and just watch WoW die a not so slow but very painful death
Old world was terrible in wotlk retard
No red mobs in the starting zone, no elite mobs, no class quests, no profession quests
And because stats were fucked you one shot everything even without heirlooms
I think you're mistaken, while it was easier than BC, it isn't by that much, I still remember playing with my friends and getting our asses destroyed by elite mobs/group quest mobs
I'm seriously confused as to how they are getting away with charging a sub fee for this. It's not like there aren't tons of f2p mmos around anymore, most of which are various types of WoW clones. Fucking addicts man.
If the game goes f2p I'll play again for nostalgia with some friends. So glad I haven't played since Wrath, I at least still have some pleasant memories.
That's an entire week to get to 100, learn the class, do the pre expansion event, etc.
An entire week otherwise spent doing fucking nothing.
I want to enjoy the 100% DH BG's that will be happening the entire week, maybe even world DH PvP. It will be a blast.
Just remember Gundrak and Utgarde raids were SCRAPPED, instead we got Naxxramas LFR difficulty. The giant snake in Gundrak is part of the scrapped raid.
Then they SCRAPPED Azjol-Nerub raid for Trial of the casuals. What a fucking joke, the Nerubian kingdom is one of the coolest things ever. You can still see the zone from parts in Old Kingdom.
Then Cata scrapped fucking Abyssal Maw, which is the biggest plot hole in game. Neptune is still missing somewhere being raped by the giant octopus and Azshara.
Firelands was supposed to be a two raid tier, with Water/Fire as the theme. Instead we get rehashed ZG/ZA and heroics nerfed into the ground. All because of the awful reception underwater zones got, despite the zone being great.
Then War of the ancients CoT was scrapped.
At least MoP had no known scrapped content.
WoD scrapped 90% of everything from its announcement.
Does anyone got any links to streams for blizzcon?
>being good at all
When will this meme end?
Wrath was the beginning of the end. You know why we have "content droughts"? Yeah, because Blizzard decided that everyone had to be raiding current tier and make previous tiers irrelevant.
In TBC I was progressing in Sunwell and other guilds were still recruiting for progression in SSC and TK. Even during SWP progression we still went back to TBC to get gear (especially glaives for Brutallus) and sometimes even Hyjal if we felt like it. Now? New raid gets released and gearing up is so easy that all other tiers become pointless, so you end up raiding the same shit for one year.
Fuck Wrath for starting this shit.
And Blizz fans were laughing, that Heavensward was on a 5 months content-break, because dev team went for vacations after expansion released.
Enjoy 15 monts of Hellfire Citadel, I will be raiding Void Ark and doing airship missions with my free company.
activision blizzard dont give shit about world of warcraft anymore. they recently bought candy crush for 5 billion dollars plus hearthstone is making shit ton of money and newest game overwatch is having lots of hype/popularity. i hope these times even the most loyalist wow subscribers call blizzard out what they are. fuckin jews
>People like how races/classes are unique
>Let's give eachother the faction unique classes
>Let's remove racial spells for priests
>Let's remove class quests
>Let's remove faction flavour and let people swap between factions for money
>Let's make hybrids better than core classes
>Let's reduce talent trees to 1 of 3 abilities
>Mfw people fell for this lie 3 times in a row now.
DON'T WORRY GUYS WE LEARNED OUR LESSON WITH I̶C̶C̶ ̶D̶S̶ SOO DON'T WORRY IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN WE PROMISE!
>6.2 is one of the most boring patches in history
>blizzfags will eat it for 1.5 years
I so wanna see the sub dives in q4 and 2016's quarters
>racial spells for priests
I miss Starshards and that's it. Everything else could go fuck itself because that was a horribly balanced implementation of a cool idea and you know it.
>I so wanna see the sub divers
Unfortunately anon, they no longer support sub numbers because they don't actually reflect how much money the game is making, yeah that's it that's what we're going with yeah
0 fight was hard because gear check retard
If your raid could do +1 or even 2, they could do 0 after some hardmode farm
This is not how hard modes should work
Compare it to the highmaul and foundry fights, no amount aviable gear will save your ass from black hand and emperor if you aren't good enough
Blizz dindu nuffin. Dey a gud mmo company . Dey Ned mo mony fo da programz
says every blizz fanboi right now
>if the Devs actually listened to the community the game would have a tonne more players
They did listen to the community, they saw that the community was very polarising and then they realised that listening to them would be a mess they can't fix.
They finally made me not give a fuck about WoW anymore, they didn't even make a proper trailer like with WoD. Literally into the trash
There's no way HFC is going to last for over one and a half years. I just can't believe that. The way it's set up with the staggered item levels makes it even worse, you VERY quickly end up just running the upper 5 bosses each week and you're done. There's no way they could possibly think 5 bosses is enough for a year and a half.
I'll wait until blizzcon starts to get mad.
>Mfw Pony-Champion defending the cushion date
>W-w-w-w-well the Starcraft 2 Expansion said March 2016 and it's coming out next week so that means Legion will be out in February next year!
>Completely ignoring that WoD was December 2014 and it came out November 2014.
I came back at Pandaria launch at quit right before Orgrimmar raid. That was apparently 10-12 months long correct? How can they get away with that?
The first raids in Pandaria were pretty fun, but that's probably because I did them with good friends.
>All this bad info 'Leaks', September 2016, early access, 50 dollar expansion
>Less than 24 hours before Blizzcon
>HEY GUYS LOOK AT BLIZZCON ISN'T THIS GREAT ISN'T WOW GREAT YOU GUYS ARE GREAT LOOK AT ALL THIS GREAT LEGION STUFF
Holy shit Blizzard are scumbag geniuses.
You couldn't brute force 0 light from 2 light until Trial of the whatever crusader and it's easy gear, 1 to 0 was closer, but required much stricter play. Firefighter vastly altered the way you did Mimiron, making it both harder, and much more fun.
I was talking about guilds. I've been in multiple startup guilds with multiple characters. usually lower progression goes pretty fast. we quickly get to the point where everyone has everything from lower so we just do upper each week.
So wait, they really went through with their whole plan of less tiers per expac? But then also made it take longer between expansions instead of shorter? And are also charging 10 bucks more for each expansion? They did this?
To be fair, ICC also got a pre-expansion raid filler in the Ruby Sanctum., though that is a moot point.
What actually matters are facts, and the gaps between the final patches of Wrath -> Cata and Cata -> MOP were much shorter than MoP was to WoD, and now WoD to Legion.
In terms of month-span between last patch to next expansion, it was something like this: Wr 7 C -> C 9 M -> M 11 Wa. (Wa 15(?) Le)
The difference is that during Wrath's last patch, they were also prepping Cataclysm and Beta was soon to follow after having released 3.3, so the 7 month drought was negligible to a small degree. Cata used the same process, but with less success.
MoP just ate dirt when it had the WoD beta come out, and so too shall WoD, except there is also a lot of fecal matter that they'll be eating too.
>But then also made it take longer between expansions instead of shorter
Are you noticing a pattern here?
>the gaps between the final patches of Wrath -> Cata and Cata -> MOP were much shorter than MoP was to WoD
>3.3: 9/12/2009, Cata: 7/12/2010, 12 months
>4.3: 29/11/2011, MoP: 25/9/2012, 10 months
Not that much shorter.
Because they're trying to maximize profits and it's more cost effective to shit out a half-assed expansion every 2 years~ while wringing money of the community with paid services and cash shop mounts with a barebones team.
>$50 for an expansion with less content than $40 expansions
>BOOST INSTANTLY TO LEVEL 100
WoWfags will literally defend this shit.
>bragging about content that's easier than LFR-difficulty raids
I'd rather unsub from WoW for a year and work on cleaning up my backlog of other games than play a pale imitation of WoW.
12 MONTHS OF ICECROWN
12 MONTHS OF SIEGE OF ORGRIMMAR
NOW 12 MONTHS OF HELLFIRE CITADEL
Didn't they say that the WoW dev team now is the largest it has ever been in over a decade?
So why the fuck is there barely any content? Did they just hire a bunch of interns to damage control the forums or something?
>release a full-price expansion that literally wasn't even half done
>expect to milk it for a year
SOE used to get away with that in EverQuest because evercrack addicts didn't have options.
But WoW is a steadily sinking ship in a sea filled with refugee rafts.
Both WoW and XIV are shit Yoshi, your game has 4 endgame bosses in 5 months and the content for the next 5 months is a LFR tier raid and glorified hunts for welfare gear. Even ERPers are getting tired of your game, step it up before you die completely.
Get some new friends then, faggot.
3.1 is in four days.
>6 billion to buyout King
>adding this small thing to improve WoW would cost a raid tier
I know money doesn't necessarily = development time but come the fuck on. Warlords was completely half assed. It's as if the Horde Garrison was an afterthought and sloppily pasted together compared to the Alliance one which has been datamined into having like 10 different versions and multiple locations.
This content drought is happening, along with no longer posting subs because WoW will become Free to Play after the movie.
They no longer care about the people who will quit during these 15 months because they're going to try and draw a load of casuals back in.
That's why Illidan's on the box, he's another well-known WoW character like the Lich King.
It's also why the expansion is more expensive.
Screencap this - but if it is not the case, we know for sure that Activision/Blizzard are truly off their rocker thinking that the general moviegoing audience will not only go to see their movie, but consider monthly subscription for the game afterward.
I'd rather play other games with them than to force myself to play a game by myself where i've already done everything i had to do.
Void Ark and FC hunts aren't enough to keep me hooked, sorry.
Please continue shilling your shitty game.
The disparity in content blizzard adds with every new expansion while charging more is laughable. If we look at only expasions the amount of new features, dungeons, and raids added in BC/Wrath dwarf anything that came afterward. MoP was on a good track but failed in the dungeon and PVP content badly plus the massive wait for the SoO patch to end.
Basically Blizzard just doesn't give a fuck anymore and have been creating less content for you as a whole year after year.
It do, retard
The more money you throw into project, the faster it will be done
Theoritically if you put enough money, project can be finished in day
But of course you one of the retards who believe into shit like "we don't have builds of our old versions"
>$70 FOR AN UNFINISHED EXPANSION AND RESKINNED MOUNT
And what F2P games do this then? What content do they give you in these 15 months? And compare that content to one content patch for WoW and you will see that the F2P has a lot less work
>wow on consoles
Will never happen. Period.
The target audience for WoW is now just old players, new players make up a extremely non-factor amount of the subscriber base, most of the players are 30-50 years old. Not a bunch of 10-20 year old consolefags.
And that theory is strongly depends on what your project is, assuming it also won't suffer from having a too large work force.
If you are going to shitpost then shitpost about something correct
Calling it now. WoW is going to be announced as f2p tonight. There will be similar restrictions to what Wildstar has plus you can still subscribe for premium service and use WoW tokens to access the premium service as well.
There is absolutely no way they are going to let a 10 month drought happen after losing so many subs already without giving something back to the community.
>Screen says AT LATEST 9/16
>People acting like pre-expac events don't exist
>There will still be holiday events
>None of you have max achievement points
>Blizzard working hard to bring out a new weekly event (Timewalking/BG events)
>They will obviously announce something big at Blizzcon
Its fucking pathetic how deeply the FFXIV shills have taken root on this board. People just believe whatever garbage they spit out of their furry mouths and then their disinfo shills post all caps and reaction images till everyone believes it
Nice job not being here yesterday retard
the static image was found on Blizzards website as a future popup ad. It was taken down shortly after but plenty of people were around to see it
Remember to buy Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Heavensward™ today!
It's the hottest MMO of the decade and the only sub based MMO still getting new content and players other than WoW or EVE!
All they are adding in are a few repeatable daily quests for level 3 garrisons just like Hallow's End for garrison decorations. It's obvious they're planning on Warlords being around for a very long time until late next year.
>still playing the ruined version they turned into a facebook game without any server community
No thank you
>PvP broken for at LEAST another year
And people will still play this game.
They literally said themselves during Ulduar release that they're testing a new type of raid, where everyone gets to experience the joy of raiding, while raiders can go play HC
>all those useless talents
>still having to use cookie cutter builds to even be remotely good
It's worse now, because when you pick a spec you get completely railroaded into it, which defeats the purpose of hybrid classes like Druid or Paladin. The old system had some room for flexibility, and they didn't take away your fucking spells when you picked a spec.
>for not subbing to a shit game
Not even close. I have a $2,000 pc I built myself, a $1,500 laptop, every modern game console + handhelds, an apartment in washington DC, a car, and a fucking Rickenbacker. Your game is shit, stop making excuses.
>which defeats the purpose of hybrid classes like Druid or Paladin
because being able to do everything isn't enough, you want to also do it all at the same time?
weren't prot/healadins and resto druids the absolute cancer plague on pvp for the longest time exactly because of that?
but if I take those talents, I can't get the mandatory talent for my class that REQUIRES those 5 points in crit, and nobody will take me to molten core to half-afk grind away at the incredibly well-designed bosses there!
The old system made leveling more satisfying, and up until you got into serious raiding or PVP, you could do pretty much anything you wanted. You had a little more room to fuck around, even if it wasn't going to make a radical change most of the time.
Getting a single talent point every 15 levels is boring, especially when one of the three skills in each tier is a clear-cut winner 9 times out of 10.
>because being able to do everything isn't enough, you want to also do it all at the same time?
Yes, that's the fucking point of playing a druid. Jack of all trades, master of none.
So you didn't start playing until cata or some shit? Alright, fuck off.
Now something g I would really like to see is a mmo with a likeness to monster hunter where there are no levels but gear upgrades that are tailored for your play style. Not at redundant as monster hunter would still need raids and dungeons as well as a much more in depth combat system content could keep flowing without a unfathomable gap from a fresh start to an end game to on only thing setting them apart would be gear
they are all useful in different situations, true min maxers respec for every fight now. For example Blade storm is good for aoe, bloodbath for single target and avatar for fights where you focus your damage. It's not hard to figure out.
>go outside the city and kill some low level elementals
>no Mists pre-expansion event
>Warlords event kill some brown orcs and get some trinkets, a toy, and a title
...Fuck you're right.
Druids have always been and will always be the cancer class, worse than hunters and death knights put together. They were basically unbeatable in battlegrounds if you didn't gang the fuck up on them because LOL I SHIFT OUT OF EVERY CC AND HEAL MYSELF AS WELL AS A PRIEST, TANK AS WELL AS A WARRIOR AND DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS A ROGUE, PLUS I HAVE ROOTS AND SHIT LOL
I'm rich and entitled and I don't see what they did good for me
Oh I can go the faction that wins battlegrounds because racials are stupid.And I HAVE to play human or nothing.Great.
And I can buy a fuckton of pets no one cares about.
And mounts that don't feel rewarding since I didn't work towards them.Amazing.Really I'd rather have reputations be relevant again and not give 50 recolors of the same ugly boar with ridiculous animations.
Nah fuck this
>it'll be 1.5 years without a decent amount of new content
That is fucking disgusting.
Nah, sorry. Played since Vanilla and I hated the old talent trees. Being forced to put 90% of the points into shit like "+% to damage/healing/dodge" before I could pick actual talents was stupid. Baking those passive increases into the spec itself was one of their best ideas. And it's a lot easier to change talents quickly and you still have the option to run subpar talents for the sake of being "unique" and "different".
Why you call it dead? You only need new content patches in current wow because you get everything done in a week. Vanilla has content for months, because you have to progress through every single raid tier
>tfw started nostalruse on day one
>one of the few people to stay around until 60
>badass group of drunks and i fail our way through MC once it was released
>try to log in
>banned by some autsy frenchie who lurked the vg thread and made sure no fun was allowed
so much for that, all the mods are in a circlejerk and are absolute shitlords
on a related note
>make new character, now knowing mage is op as fuck in this patch
>get to 40
>wreck twinks on my way up with kiting and some minor coordination from my team
>get bored and give my account away in the thread
shit game, on a terrible emulation engine that makes everyone move like they have parkinsons and the lack of easy battleground matchmaking modifications made me quit
Wrong, it appeals to the retards that still eat shit up, they have cut shitloads of thing, the development costs for wow do not justify the 50$ price tag nor a monthly sub ONTOP of micro transactions.
>I was feral in vanilla and BC and people thought I was endearing and I really had to fight for my kills
>then we were put into the mage chair and are top hated class
>There are people on MMO-Champkek defending this right now
>HURR THEY NEVER PROMISED YOU ANYTHING STOP BEING ENTITLED
The prophecy is coming true. Blizzdrones are ascending to a higher tier than Biodrones.
>only started playing in 2011
>everyone says the game was way better before that
>tfw missed out of the glory days
This, a fool and his money are easily parted
WoWs playerbase is mostly cancerous wrathbaby retards, Hearthstone is babys first card game and somehow they justify paying money for digital cards when other games have them for free
Starcraft is dead, so its irrelevent
Overwatch and HOTS are just more casualized versions of other games
Diablo 3 is also dead
Please, don't believe the hype.
The community was better in Vanilla. Before they made everything cross server, it felt like you were actually part of something. You'd see people you recognized all the time, make friends and form rivalries with the enemy faction. You could go to Orgrimmar and just know who people were.
Vanilla as an actual game was a fucking horrid mess of bad mechanics and poor design choices. It's things like this that make Vanilla Servers such an enigma to me. You can never recapture the original feeling and the game just wasn't that good.
Older ALWAYS = better. That's why older people are always reminiscing about the good old days and angry at the world now. Change is always bad, nothing should ever be altered. If WoW had remained in its Vanilla state it would have 30 million subs by now, that's how amazing and awesome it was.
But why would they care for that?
I honestly think they have been trying to kill wow for good now, they are literally squeezing it for money, doing the minimum and gaining the maximum, why you would ask?
Because heartstone currently makes more money than wow in his prime time and the dev costs are probably minuscule compared to even modern wow.
The most retarded thing about these ridiculous times between last tier and next expansions is that they made raiding easier to avoid another Sunwell/Naxx incident. Fuck, giving players a whole year when ICC/DS/SOO are being completed first week by no name guilds. At least a good percentage of the population would have been using their time to get through sunwell in these situations.
God you're so full of shit. Want me to make a post about how all millenials are "entitled" little shits who like getting fucked in the ass by companies ?
That's how stupid you sound
and I'm not even old
I'll take Garrison and 5 big dailies over flying to 8 different places to grind dailies in MoP anyday.
Also the only interesting places in MoP were Jurassic Park and electric buugaloo island, others were just the same shit
>It's more fun than WoD
I had no idea we were setting the bar so low.
But the problem with WoD isn't the actual game itself. It's the people running it. The way WoW plays at its core right now is 100 times better than Vanilla. 5 man dungeons have more interesting mechanics than 40 man raids ever did, every class has multiple functioning specs, loot is actually good.
There's just no fucking content in WoD worth doing.
>You can never recapture the original feeling
That's kinda wrong, though. I've been playing on Nost for about a month, and while having 10 years of experience on retail spoils things a bit, that sense of community is still largely there.
I don't know what it is about WoW threads, I haven't played since BC was released(Was so bad, I quit for good.)
Yet, I can't stay away from WoW threads and I keep checking the game, but my account hasn't been active ever since.
I just laugh when people say BC was the best, it wasn't. It was just when you started playing, that you think it's the best. Vanilla WoW probably wasn't that good either but it was my first MMO and I enjoyed it.
MMOs are dying. WoW's just trying to milk it while it goes away. RTS is already dead. Shit, SC2 is getting the protoss compaign in like 4 days and I haven't heard a single thing about it from anyone. This is why they suddenly started so many projects of other currently popular genres over the past few years, and just bought candy crush. They saw the writing on the wall.
Are you ever gonna shit your pants the first time Rag erupts from the Lava again? Are you ever gonna jump up and down like a spastic the first time you get a fucking purple item? Are you ever gonna feel a real sense of accomplishment when you kill a raid boss with 39 other people without looking up the tactics for the fight BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T EXIST?
The only person you're lying to is yourself.
I wouldn't say it's the people in and of themselves but how you have every reason not to interact with them
Seriously in the first 20minutes of playing nost you will have to group up. And make new friends in the process.
Or even enemies. Especially with those 3h long dungeons and shit.
And it's like that for the whole game.
Also I have to say as grindy as it is it still gives me that feel of being a random explorer going on an adventure
I also fucking hated the very idea of vanilla servers before trying it out but it's not nearly that bad
I wouldn't play it seriously again but I'd say it was definitely worth a few hours of my time
Loot in WoD is fucking horribly boring. For most specs ilevel is a good enough indication. If they removed items and just made your character get stronger each time you progressed in a raid, it would be exactly the same.
Vanilla and BC had the best gearing system for an MMO. Different stats had different values for specs and not being autistic allowed you find lots of good gear. Blizzard's target market is so downy that gems and reforging is too much for them to handle.
Well shit, now I might actually go play there again if it means less lag and more emphasis on leveling. I got a warrior to 30 but I just got burnt out after a while.
>Are you ever gonna jump up and down like a spastic the first time you get a fucking purple item? Are you ever gonna feel a real sense of accomplishment when you kill a raid boss with 39 other people without looking up the tactics for the fight BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T EXIST?
Yes and yes. I also shit my pants when I hit 40 and got my mount because walking for that long actually made it fucking satisfying. There's also the fact that, again, just like you mentioned in your previous post, that sense of community still there, which is what made it(and every other MMO really) great and memorable.
I'm not even trying to say it feels 100% just like it did 10 years ago, but to say none of that feeling is left is fucking stupid and wrong. I'm getting that feeling right now, regardless of whether or not you want to acknowledge that.
Yeah I hate that they removed gems and reforging.
I mean I just did what Mr Robot told me to but it was something.
Also they "removed stats" only to add new stats that were essentially the same thing renammed.
>Vanilla had the best gearing system
>Boy I'm so glad I spent all my DKP on these epic tier legs for 1 str, 2 stamina and 5 fire and shadow resistance!
I'm not defending WoD loot, it's fucking boring and where the fuck are all the proc weapons.
But the difference between someone in full Valor and full Might back in the day was almost non-existent, especially if you weren't a tank warrior,
As for reforging being 'hard', fucking lel all people did was use Mr Robot. The only reason reforging existed was for Hit and Expertise, which were removed.
>I will never play WoW again in the early days.
>I will never play guildwars 1 again and instead be stuck with "guildwars" 2 SJW edition.
Everything I love is going to shit.
The idea of classic loot was influced by diablo2 items, where resistances played a big role, which is in vanilla still a thing. A lot of items are still bad, blues often better than epics and only 1 tier set for each class
I just wish loot had higher drop rates.
I shouldn't run the same fucking raid 30 times and never get enough loot to proceed to the next difficulty.
Its fucking stupid. LFR should have nearly 100% drop rates. Normal could cut it down and maybe add a system that guarantees no dupes, Heroic could drop it a bit more then Mythic can be the system ot has how where everything is a 1/1000 drop chance.
Ya, Mr. Robot does make things pretty simple and I'm not going to argue reforging just to get hit cap. That being said, if you look back at old BC threads and see the theory crafting vs today. It's not even comparable.
I would just have preferred blizzard to offer more talents to give players more options of utilizing their gear. Instead of removing talents all together. This would have helped keep the purpose of gearing
Entitlement to what ? Yes people are entitled to feel nostalgic for things tjey loved in the past.
Yes they are entitled to like a game they played even if they played it long ago.
How is it entitlement if they're not even asking for anything ? They're fucking downgrading their game not asking for new content.
Just fuck off. If you're gonna spout buzzwords at least spout the appropriate ones.
>been raiding with the guild since HFC dropped
>still using the heroic chest piece from Oregorger
>we're pushing Heroic now
>my DPS is ass backwards garbage thanks to the fucking chest
>everyone else gets priority when the tier chest drops because they get their 2piece/4piece with it
>don't have a single fucking piece of tier
>people keep leaving and newer peeps join, meaning they need the tier and I lose every single fucking roll
Doesn't help that my class is fucking broken and we're given the worst kind of attention "in anticipation" for the new upgrade system.
I'm nostalgic for social fucking interaction in a goddamn MMO.
Harping on about game design and shit is meaninglessness because no MMO has ever been well-designed. Literally every single MMO has been a clunky piece of shit with barebones combat mechanics and padded-out grinding. But it didn't matter because they did a good job of providing NEETs and other anti-social types with a virtual world where they could escape from their shitty lives and live a different one where they were wizards and knights with friends and accomplishments instead of virgins and shut-ins.
And that lack of proper game design extends to MMOs made today, too, because they're all still padded-out grindfests with shitty tab-targeting combat. Only now they've had any form of social interaction stripped from them and have been streamlined and homogenized to the point of complete sterile blandness. They're just really poorly-designed singleplayer games now. They're fucking worthless.
The fact that people need a program to find out what stats are best for their character just shows how overloaded it was. There is no way for an average player to see what of all these stats and gems are the best for their character.
There doesn't have to be anything than crit, hit and a mainstat stat increases damage
When I quit before WoD, it was over stupid drop rates and running the same raid 50 times.
When I quit again back the day 6.2 dropped it was pretty much the same reasons.
That and I wanted Tanaan to somehow save things. I stead I got a zone with instant spawn mobs in packs of 20 at a time, each one needing like 5 minutes to kill and constant death. Basically, Tanaan wad a shitty trudge, partly because they took too long to put it out so they had to death with players in gear ranging from 550 to like 800 iLVL all running the place.
>Tho MoP and Cata are pretty much equally shit
There's this meme again
Honestly, MoP was one of the best expansions they've ever made, and if people are too blind to see that because of their "furshit" hate (conveniently ignored the fact that we have Taurens and Worgen), then they're just too fucking dumb to form good opinions to begin with
Way fucking better than doing a heroic and getting a weapon, doing another heroic and replacing with warforged, then doing LFR and replacing again, then doing normal and replacing again. What a day, eh? Maybe when we run heroic tomorrow I can replace again?
One of the great things about MMOs is that they're worlds. Finding dungeon drops better than raids or professions or using pvp items that are stronger than your tier is a good system that allows players to creatively get more gear. Yes, AR is an obvious one that was a lot easier to obtain, but there was still many others that not many used.
Sorry if you prefer new WoW's system of gearing that feels like a fucking tutorial. "You got a new weapon! Open your bag and right click it to equip. It's new, so it MUST be better."
>a whole year without content
I thought legion would come out this year
I came back to try out draenor - man I didn't even bother to resubscribe, heres my face
The worst part about it is that I now have to pug since the raid team has been disbanded thanks to this little leak.
God damn, I never get tier no matter the fucking raid, this is horseshit.
>lowest DPS and have to borderline tunnel and time shit perfectly so the group isn't bogged down enough to catch the tight enrage timer on Iskarr while everyone else just plows through with no effort because their damage and tier is obscene with BiS trinkets, while I'm stuck with FEL CLEAVE and HUNGERING BLOWS the shit tier combo
>ALL of my gear does not have the stats I need to make my class worth a shit in the first place
This tier is cancer. This game is cancer.
I don't think anyone is retarded enough to pretend Vanilla wasn't the best WoW experience to date with an community and social aspect that has all but vanished by this point.
But the reason this discussion started is people unironically pretending the GAME was better in Vanilla than it is now.
I would give anything to go back and experience Vanilla WoW all over again for the very first time. But playing on a Vanilla server is pointless.
So you think there shouldn't be a reward for progressing through raids? That the best loot in an MMO should be from easy solo content?
The leveling was by far the worst I have ever experienced. It was every single area, grab quests, kill some shit around our panda town and gather some shit. Every single quest. Cata was so much better, even when it went too far with the memes. Also the LFR raid system already destroyed progress or any intention for players to join raidguilds, because nobody wants to do the same raid again just a little harder for the same looking gear in different color
How autistic can you be? Holy fuck. Mr.Robot isn't needed in WoD. If the game was just hit, crit and main stat it would be even more trivial than now. Why even have hit? It was already removed. Why even have crit anymore? It just goes up and scales classes differently later. Just use main stat then? Why even have gear then? That's my issue.
Recently, I've had the urge to resub and try it out again after a year away. Then I see shit like this and remember why I quit in the first place and see that nothing has changed.
Then I just go lol nope and walk away.
Not every day of Vanilla was your first day. At some point you were a veteran player and still enjoyed it no ? Well here's the point of private servers
It's not nearly as good sure.It's still good.
>back in WotLK, before the Cata release
>"Hey guys, we know you hated a year of nocontent, so we're shifting to a tighter schedule and quicker patches and addons"
I want someone to ask them about it at the Q&A so we can laugh at their pathetic excuses.
You can't reason with them. We have long ago hit the point where the anti furry crowd has become far more loud, illogical and annoying than the furries ever where.
MoP was the first original thing blizz had done in like 10 years and you could tell the devs really enjoyed it and gave it their all, care and lore was sprinkled into every corner of pandaria. yet /v/ cannot see this because they all grew up on /b/ during the yiff in hell era and have been indoctrinated into blindly raging at anything anthro since they were 12 years old.
Pre-nerf Cata = Vanilla > Ulduar-Wrath > TBC -> MoP -> Post-Ulduar ->Post-nerf Cata - > Pre-Ulduar -> Draenor
This is indisputable, considering cut content and what could-haves.
You would not believe how buttmad china was when they found out there would be multiple asian references in MoP - they didnt like it, so blizzard in their infinite wisdom made everything china-based. MoP could have been godlike.
>But the reason this discussion started is people unironically pretending the GAME was better in Vanilla than it is now.
It started because you said the private server captured nothing of the original game, which I said is wrong because the largest part of the experience, the community aspect, is still there. The freshness of everything would have only lasted a month, two or three at the most. Compared to the 3 or 4 years before I started to hate it, that's a pretty small portion that's missing from the overall experience.
Not every day of Vanilla was my first day, no.
But I got bored of running MC and eventually BWL back in Vanilla. Why would I want to do them again? 10 years hasn't changed that.
Though, everything aside you're probably the most reasonable person who plays private servers I have ever seen. You admit it's not every going to be as good as it was and haven't really resorted to calling me names or something something shit eater something something metzen cock.
I'm glad you found something you enjoy.
And what do we have now? They added multistrike and we already have haste and mastery. None of these can tell me what are best for my spec, it's just not possible to tell without some nerds calculating every spec and making a guide everyone will follow
I understand that the questing experience is a matter of opinion, and that's fine. Many expansions have had the same style of questing - it's pretty much always:
>Collect X items
>Kill Y mobs
>Kill Z big bad of the region
Though, people don't remember all of the high points of the expansion. Thunder Isle and Timeless Isle have to be some of the best zones during their peaks. There was huge incentive to go out and do shit in Pandaria. Scenarios were great, and all of the raids were top-notch. People only hate SoO because it lasted over a year.
The story was also very well crafted, ESPECIALLY considering that the story was created from scratch with no preludes. It flew well from patch to patch and came full circle at the end.
Say what you will about MoP, but at least it had more content than most of the other expansions
MC still had better gear than dungeons for most slots and gear that was weaker than other areas of the game weren't a huge stat drop. It's like making boots that give 50dps worth of stats vs MC boots that give 48. It doesn't obsolete raid gear and other gear will still be better from MC.
BC had it a bit better. Heroics could only be done once a day and finding gear that was better than raids took more time since they could only be ran once a day. Not to mention on release they were around the same level of difficulty as raids and required rep to enter.
And now they're removing multistrike, the only interesting stat the game has.
I don't care if it's just a slightly different crit, Multistrike as a caster was cool, shooting little fireballs and shadow bolts.
>Was a Holy Paladin in MoP
>Only Plate wearer in raid group besides DK Tank
>Only person who could use a shield in raid group
Siege was a great raid to get me geared up. Everything just fell into my lap for main and off-spec
except trinkets.I was still using Flex trinkets from Blackfuse and Sha when we were progressing through Heroic Thok.
You dont need to calculate anything.
You just need to read an article on icy-veins or wherever about your class, and find out your stat priority. That's it.
After that you just look for gear with your top stats. No math involved.
They are removing multistrike because it's overpowered. It was a top stat almost for every class/spec.
>required rep to enter.
Oh fuck I remember this now
Who the hell thought this was supposed to be a good idea?
MC loot as a whole for casters was worse than Dungeon blues because it had no Spell Power(or was it called spell damage back in the day?).
As for TBC heroics, they buffed Kara loot pretty early because they weren't happy with it being equal/worse than Heroics.
If you think people having to calculate shit is bad then BiS gear doesn't even matter to you bud. You're not playing to a point where gear matters. Go play Skyrim instead of trying to downsize MMOs.
>shitty boring continent
>shitty boring race
>Chen went from an insane person who said things like I BRING PANDAMONIUM to a boring MUH ZEN nerd
>shitty boring dungeons
>compulsory daily rep grinds
>14 months of SoO
>Timeless "Here's your free full set of epics!" Isles
>even more streamlining and casualization
>even more emphasis on LFR garbage
>even more destruction to the game's community and social aspects
MoP was shit m8, get the fuck over it :^)
>Tanking Death Knights
>DPS Death Knights
>shitty boring continent
The only place I ever had a real problem with was the Jade Forest. I couldn't wait to get out of there but beyond that the zones were nice, especially Dread Wastes. Klaxxi were my muggas.
>There are people here that actually liked WoW since release and completely ignored Everquest 2 release
Thanks for contributing to the decline of MMOs by enforcing a standard of piss easy, dumbed down shit. Release WoW wasn't even that difficult.
Okay you clown. You don't understand the point at all. Having so many stats that it's not possible for the player to understand what item is better without letting a simulation tell you what is better, the stats are just fucked, it was not as complicated in the past and it doesn't need to
Atleast it gave you the feeling of progression and accomplishement when you got that key.
Same with attunements.
As someone who has been playing WoW since US Open Beta, I consider their two biggest mistakes are: removal of attunements and flying mounts.
I was that kid who hated both while playing eve
For most specs it's pretty obvious what would be the best. When it's not, they're so close it doesn't matter.
The biggest problem with the stats has always been that they do the same thing in different ways, meaning there's always a mathematical winner. In the same way that armor, health, dodge, etc are just effective health and could also ultimately be condensed into a single stat.
The only way to get out of that would be to have stats matter enough that they'd adjust your playstyle. Then you'd choose the stat that helps your playstyle the most. The only thing currently in WoW I can think of is some masteries. For example, a holy paladin stacking mastery changes up how they heal, focusing on blanket absorbs and refreshing unspent absorbs before the expire. On paper it's a little worse than going for pure throughput, but still viable and a stat allows you to play that way. Healers in general tend to be more flexible simply because their job isn't always maximum output, but simply keeping people alive while sustaining their resources. They're also more team-oriented, where you can slap the guy who wants to do big heals on the tanks, and the aoe person on the raid. DPS gets a rough break because their only job is to do more damage and Blizzard has made sure they have infinite resources so it's not like efficiency means anything, and a spreadsheet will pretty much always tell you exactly what the numbers are going to be like that.
All Blizzard needs to do is let us have nipple piercings on our male characters.
>DPS Death Knights
>One of the only DPS specs with unique and powerful utility
>2nd best ability to cheese boss mechanics behind Rogues
>Only melee that is actively being recruited by raiding guilds
Lots of people enjoy theory crafting games and finding out what stats are better. As I said earlier though, I'm sure you don't have to worry BiS. It's like DotA 2, HoN, LoL. There's a best build or two for each hero depending on the situation. But if you don't care to research items that counter or synergize well and just find certain items fun. Then go ahead and have fun. Doesn't mean items should get removed.
Why would Blizzard care, this is the majority of their playerbase.