Discussion about the making or playing of Original English Language Visual Novels.
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> when put up in a list like this, Sekai Project's track record looks so bad... with basically nothing completed, they keep getting money based on promises. Even worse since WC left.
Holy crap. I guess I'd always just assumed most of the stuff was finished.
Honestly articles like that are why sekai should move on from the Kickstarter model. You get put under so much scrutiny for using Kickstarter and taking peoples money before the product is out.
So like how often should I update my idea thread on Lemma?
I'm thinking of doing it like on a bi-daily or weekly basis since, I'm writing a Goddamn epic and it probably won't be done for years.
Probably won't have art and programming done until at least the common route is finished, but I don't want people to think I died.
Why does everyone have to get so caught up in personalities and shilling and brands, as though all devs are tripfags?
Let's just talk about the games and their merits and stop trying to turn visual novels into e-celeb bullshit.
I'm saying we should stop focusing on it. People try to sell you things. They want to self-promote because they're small time and can't afford advertizing space. It shouldn't be so shocking to everyone to the point that half the thread involves pointless nastiness and conspiracy theories.
>They want to self-promote because they're small time and can't afford advertizing space. It shouldn't be so shocking to everyone to the point that half the thread involves pointless nastiness and conspiracy theories.
Well, it would help if devs would stop being caught blatantly cheating.
It's not just VNs, a lot of small indies resort to dirty tactics to make sure their steam games launch with positive reviews.
I do not care if someone's shilling in the thread here, it's the evn thread and we SHOULD be shilling ourselves, it's stupid that we don't.
the only evn person i know who cheats with their reviews is AJ Tilley. I haven't heard any scandal about any other devs using underhanded tactics or getting friends/kickstarter backers/themselves under false names to write positive reviews for them.
If it's gonna go on for years, then once a month should be enough, otherwise people will be overexposed and lose interest eventually.
You're not the creator of
Essenceby chance, are you? I really liked the demo but it looks like the creator vanished into the void.
There are some EVN devs who have made commercial games that I didn't think were very good, or all that polished, but I don't then assume that they're bad people because of this or anything.
When I play a VN, I don't judge it on the name of the dev who made it, I judge it on the quality of the final product itself, and if it's bad it's bad, if it's good, it's good. Who made it should be irrelevant.
This gets a bit trickier when VNs are made by politically-minded devs who are using the medium to express their personal thoughts/opinions about social issues, so it's hard to always remove the creator from their product, but even then you can still judge a VN based on whether it's been written and put together competently or not.
I'm thinking of Christine Love in particular. A lot of people say her VNs are really political or trying to push points (at least, I've seen it brought up on here a few times)
And you get other devs saying stuff like their vns are really political (eg taosym) and making good points about body positivity and queerness etc but... I don't really see that myself.
Almost anything you write is somewhat political, even if you don't mean for it to be (at the very least, if you're trying not to be political, you're probably promoting what you think is 'normal'). How noticeable it is often depends on how far away the author you're reading's viewpoint is from yours.
Still, there's 'has political messages' and there's 'beats you over the head with them'.
the good thing is that they're slowly but surely realizing the hypocracy in their own system. If you search tumblr for sjw bullying, alot of tumblr users are speaking out against it.
Still though, the best way to handle SJWs is to not respond to them and delete everything they send you.
>they're slowly but surely realizing the hypocracy in their own system
No. They are different people. Some of those people are insane and love to flock into bullymobs. Some of them are not. Why is this so hard to grasp?
>really fast with art for friends project
>he keeps nagging me if ive done anything new art-wise despite not having any progress in his writing
I'll admit I could have worse complaints but this sorta bothers me
Exactly why, if you're friends why should you worry about HIS progress?? You should trust him unconditionally.
Course, because you are an artist, you are obligated to finish the game's assets first.
For some reason VN seem to attract some real shitheads. I'm guessing the low amount of work and high amount of support they have. Adventure games don't seem to have all these issues.
This. It's pretty easy to make a completed VN with all the simplified coding on offer. If it involved more coding and was harder work, you'd get a lot less asshats who think they're experts on game design.
I backed the KS, so I should be getting a key. I like watching Lets Plays, so it's more interesting when I'm familiar with the vn in question. I'll message you on youtube when I get my key.
>And you get other devs saying stuff like their vns are really political (eg taosym) and making good points about body positivity and queerness etc but... I don't really see that myself.
If the messages are there, then they're subtle. Jouya called herself pudgy, but didn't seem embarrassed by it. Nadia is pudgy, but Toko seems attracted to her body type (she said she's like a marshmallow). The only times I can think of when a characters body type was brought up in a negative way, was when Devon made fun of Toko's looks and Toko calling Ginxhou very thin. Devon also seems to think that Ginxhou's appearance reminds her of a zombie.
>the best way to handle SJWs is to not respond to them and delete everything they send you.
That's kind of hard to do on Steam forums and if you try to moderate them, then they claim you're censoring them and make up bad things about you. How do you think Hanako Games should've dealt with those people that demanded the name of her game be changed?
Exactly, if you respond to everyone elses comments and just ignore the "why doesn't your game have (minority of choice)" those will stand out and make it obvious what you are doing.
>then they claim you're censoring them and make up bad things about you
This is not unique to SJWs. GGers will do the exact same thing. They're two sides of the same horrible coin.
How about typical PR response that looks like it could be copy/pasted into just about any situation.
>Thank you for your concern about___. We at ___ are always glad to receive fan feedback. We currently have no plans for ___, but will consider all fan feedback going forward.
That, or I pretend to be my own community manager, so that people don't know I'm the boss, so they can't bitch at me.
It's the baselayer Tao draws different outfits, poses, and expressions on. Having it can be a real time saver and allow for more consistent proportions among all the variances of the sprites.
You can see nipples and Nadia has pubic hair. Thank you rpaextractor.
tumblr is lovely
It's sad that you have to post about killing yourself for people to change their reactions though
>Zamii's not even white
>I still can't believe tumblr users reacted so badly about fanart drawn about a show on Cartoon Network.
Like you've never seen anons react badly about something completely stupid?
I mean I kinda figured that since I've seen his drawstreams. I was trying to be silly.
HOWEVER, that was in the game files itself? Does everything just layer on top of that rather than having ten different sprites for one pose and ten expressions or something?
I am interested.
I love the little details like this.
Like they care. Once a group of bullies decides that someone deserves to be targeted, no amount of truth is going to make a difference. Everything you do is wrong. It just is.
I can maybe afford to release 1-2 game jam length vns for free, but after that if I don't start charging or being commissioned, then I won't be able to afford to make any more vns.
>not having to work 80 hours a week just to earn a couple dollars a day
fucking privileged scum
Privilege theory has some large inherent flaws. While I'm not being 100% facetious about my original statement, because it's true that not everyone can afford to do that, I am being a bitch on purpose.
mfw someone on my dash thinks you can get arrested for drawing porn of cartoon characters.
Hello police yes you're going to need to arrest the ENTIRETY of deviantart.
I don't want anyone to hate, I just find it ridiculous that people are allowed to tell people to kill themselves and get protected from any kind of backlash.
If you're such a fucking fan of call outs, why do you get to be immune?
>that was in the game files itself?
Yes, though I was surprised to find them there. Only Toko, Devon, Ginxhou, and Nadia had them. Devon and Toko are definitely lust demons. Seriously, check out Devon's baselayer (that's a euphemism I'm going to start using).
I've only checked out the art, so you'd be better off asking Tao or whoever at Lupiesoft did the scripting about how the sprites are layered.
I've only heard of anything happening twice and while I don't have knowledge of every arrest record ever, the chances seem so slim they're hardly worth mentioning.
Why waste time arresting someone
(like Rebecca Sugar, apparently)for weird fantasies when there are actual kids getting hurt out there?
I think I'm just irritated that people are flipping their shit over EEE porn because I grew up with deviantart which is full of much creepier shit, still featuring underage characters.
You think you'd give it to someone that doesn't try ass kissing devs for free review keys saying he love their games, when in reality he hates their games with a passion in previous reviews.
I proofread games from different devs. 1st dev that didn't want to give him review copy, so he bought their game and annihilated it, not to his liking. The dev told the other dev about what happened. So the 2nd dev gave him a copy. Got much better score and review. The first devs game is clearly better than the 2nd devs. Even steam reviews says so. So yeah I don't believe crap from anything JP reviews.
The opposite is true, actually. Paying can sort of force you to try and enjoy it, or convince yourself it has more merit. Most people do not purposely play romance or fetish games they do not enjoy for a few hits on a website, though.
>So yeah I don't believe crap from anything JP reviews.
Does anyone? He's good for a laugh, but I've seen three or four reviews where he complained about the games in question being filled with typos while his review was filled with typos and sentences that just don't make sense like he didn't bother proofreading it at all.
So he thinks he's entitled to every work out there just because he's a "professional" reviewer? That's rather upsetting.
I'd wonder about that. The price tag doesn't decide on whether I find something enjoyable or not. That said, I just don't see the reason to review something if it's not actually your cup of tea.
Is there a way to fix text in the namebox flashing when a transition occurs (i.e. sprites changing expressions) when you'r eusing 2 window textbox variant in renpy? The namebox itself stays put with "window show" but the text blinks in and out. I can't find anything on lemma (except for a couple old threads that are like "yep, that's a problem").
It's not a huge deal-breaker that will ruin everything forever, but it annoys me.
Try your best at fixing it. As a player, I hate such things.
It's ruining text, one of the 3 foundations of the medium.
It's the equivalent to your game's walking animation being broken.
You see it often and it stabs at your eyes
>Telling people to wait for a sale can lower the dev's revenue.
Oh, god. Guess I'd better never tell anyone that AJTilley's game is only an hour long. I mean, if I told people it isn't worth $15, I would be a terrible person taking money out of his guinea pig's mouths.
thing is, I took a look at some renpy-based EVNs I kept on my HDD for one reason or another, and they all have this problem (except Juniper's Knot because it doesn't use nameboxes), so I can't even be sure it's fixable, though I have a suspicion it's a problem with the newer versions of renpy.
>Well, I don't have a whole lot to say about it other than in under two hours, I managed to complete four different endings. I never made it to the good end with either demigodess, but the ends that I reached, inclusive of the good one with your best friend, were short.
>It's strange to say that and ending was short and yet managed to be a little gratifying, but there it is. Was it pleasant and feel-good? Yeah, for sure. Satisfying? You don't have the time to get a good grasp on some characters so not entirely.
>All in all, the game is longer than I had first thought as I had made the assumption that all ends were as short as the ones I stumbled upon, but there is more than meets the eye. I'm not sure if this game is for everyone, but in light of the fantastic art, music, diologue, voice acting, and fresh story I will definitely say that those who enjoy a solid VN should include this in their library.
And it shows. This is the most insincere-sounding review I've ever read.
Tilley's comments are a joke.
>I originally responded to this review as I did not agree with what he had written, we have discussed this more in the comments and the reviewer has added a little more detail to it now. Which i am glad of.
>In my opinion his positive points seem to massively outweigh the negative side of the review, but this review is his opnion not mine. I do thank him for adding more detail to the review to show a more balanced view based on his opinion of the other aspects of the game.
how the fuck do people get bullied online like this?
are people really such wimpering pussies that a scam artist can get you to leave a positive review on his evn by browbeating?
Sane people are social animals that dislike disapproval and want to be liked. It's part of why beating kids to make them behave is so ridiculous. Disapproval alone is quite upsetting to people who aren't sociopaths, especially disapproval from your own family.
Particularly when it's non anonymous and you can't just walk away from the argument never to be seen again.
Now, of course, this doesn't work for everyone. That line of reasoning is the argument behind a lot of "real names" policies - the thought that people will behave themselves if their actions are attached to them. Some people ARE sociopaths, though, and others are quite capable of making throwaway accounts to be a dick with.
Steam users are likely less familiar with him, so who knows if they believe what he says when he calls people who criticize his games trolls. Most people don't want to be labeled a troll.
They'll just be wary of you and/or get angry and will stir shit to fuck with you. If you make them like you and then act like you're disappointed, they'll feel guilty and try to change their behavior to win your approval back. Hey, it even works on adults.
i hate it so much when people are like 'oh, your vn looks so good, i'd love to help, i want to get involved!' and then when you actually ask them for help they either ignore you or say 'oh but you should be doing that yourself, since you're the dev'
then don't offer to help in the first place then. it's such a useless, empty gesture if you can't follow through on it.
people just irritate me in general
that's why you should never make anything in large groups, you'll just disagree and things will take far, far longer
it's easier to just do things on your own
Jack of all trades, master of none and all that. If you do everything by yourself you'd better be one of those rare people who is actually good at everything and not good at one and mediocre to passable in others.
well i can't draw so i can comm people for that, but i can do the other bits on my own
and just b/c you comm people for assets, it doesn't mean you're working as a team, or you're in contact a lot - often, they just do what they're paid to do but don't really get involved
Is 80-100 usd asking too much for backgrounds like these? Should I lower the price? How much would you pay?
I've never done commissions before but I need money.
>80-100 usd for backgrounds like these
Nigga, are you fucking serious? Holy shit.
Go learn to draw first.
Also, THIS is what good 3d-based backgrounds should look like.
Thank you for the responses. I am not a good critiquer of my own work, I have no idea if it's good or bad (which it turns out that it's very bad). I will work harder to get better then see if I can start commissioning then. Thank you all! And they were not 3D made, so I guess that means the bad quality doesn't even have an excuse. Again, thank you for the complete honesty!
The reason I had chosen those prices were because the minimum wage where I live is 9 dollars, the top pic for example took me around 10 hours. Sorry.
You see, that's poor planning. With a day job on minimum wage, you're guaranteed to get a paycheck every two weeks or monthly. With commissions, you will most likely not have work to do every day, and even if your art was worth that much, you'd probably end up making less than minimum wage if you use that much time to wrap up one background.
In order for your business to get to minimum wage, you'll have to either increase your rates or decrease the time it takes for you to draw. Luckily, both issues can be addressed if you train more.
Wow. An artists wtih a good attitude. Am a still on the same planet?
Good job man. Keep up thinking like this and working and you'll definitely git gud. It may even not take a stupidly large amount of time.
>And they were not 3D made
Wait what. How were they made then?
Also, in this case it might be a good Idea to learn 3D.
>Again, thank you for the complete honesty!
This is how people on imageboards usually behave, nothing strange here. One of the pluses of these sites.
And there is really no need to apologize. Good luck man.
Not really. There's pretty obvious flaws with it. For one, the shadows on the drawer handles are crisp and going almost straight down despite having no light source above them. It's clear the 3D artist rendered the scene without awareness of the final lighting (or maybe they just didn't think very hard about it) and the other person painted over without fixing the obvious mistakes. It's a nice image, don't get me wrong, but it's not what I'd use as an example.
Sure, it's possible but sort of irrelevant; whether it's two separate people or one person the mistakes still exist. I assumed two people because Arsenixc's 3D stuff is done by someone else in a lot of the images I've seen on their dA. I also wouldn't be surprised if some of the 3D models are stock either, since that's a lot to model per BG.
Also I wanna stress again that I like it! I've just seen better executed 3D stuff (and no, I'm not going down the rabbit hole to find an example D:)
Really anon, you just have to nit pick everything didn't ya?
That is one of heck of a background that stand above most of the other shit we've got so far.
Like that anon said, it was A GOOD example of a GOOD 3-D background.
>but it's not what I'd use as an example.
Exactly, I have to get better and faster if I want to make money off of art. But I do have a job now.
It's just that he refuses to give me more hours after what I did, and I have a payment coming up soon.
I know, I see that now.
>An artists wtih a good attitude. Am a still on the same planet?
What else would one react? It would be weird if I get angry, no point in getting angry at the truth. If I refused to believe anyone here and thought they were all lying, then I would never get better. If anything I just feel embarrassed that I even posted my art now that I know it is shit, but I will deal with it, because I want to get better.
I am curious, what makes you think they are 3D? I used photoshop. Jagged edges are because I use the pen/polygon tool to select things and then color. Thank you!
Yes, I use texture, and then shade using a multiply layer.
Why are people so paranoid about thinking they're going to be banned for everything?
If you directly insult Putin and claim that he is a gayer then you might get banned in Russia. If you say "The USSR was evil" then you are indistinguishable from a billion other video games that make them the baddies.
I don't think any video game has ever been banned for criticising the USA. If you're desperate to get yourself taken off the shelf, try breaking some laws. Release a video game that's 100% libel, copyright infringement, and photos of NSA headquarters.
Maybe it's because I'm a BG artist myself, but it hardly seems like a nitpick to me to point out that the shadows are in /total conflict with the light source/. It's a telltale sign of an amateur 3D artist. Also, despite that, and like I already said twice prior to your post:
> It's a nice image
> I wanna stress again that I like it
So chill out. And I'm not going onto dA or w/e to look for art to sate your desires. I can't think of anything of the top of my head. Over and out.
As someone who's attempting to do the backgrounds by myself for my own project, I'd recommend piecing something together in sketchup, getting the outlines, and then coloring over it if you want that hand drawn feel. Or if you want to hack out something even faster, you could just render it and doctor it up in photoshop. Either way, sketchup and it's database should be a nice free way to save you a good deal of time and give you a solid base to work from, especially if you're spending ten hours on these. I attached a screen from my test build to give an example of my results. The outlines won't look so great in sketchup, but the higher the dpi is when you export them, the thinner and cleaner they'll be. I've fairly quickly made an entire house doing this.
Then again, I'm also new to all this, so take what I say with a grain of salt. And if anyone disagrees I am all ears, because I'd want to know the better method as well.
i don't think there's anything wrong with photographic bgs, how many people pay attention to bgs anyway? even if a photographic bg might put you off getting a vn, when you start playing it you usually just ignore/don't focus on them. it's the sprites that most people focus on, since they actually represent the characters, and sprites are usually cheaper as well.
There's no such thing as a fair playing field, people who could afford advertising or who lucked into a popular zeitgeist or all sorts of things might still make it sell better despite the writer not being as good as you.
Dunno, but I have the feeling that a lot of VN fans don't know what good writing is.
Some (not all, but some) evns are piles of garbage that wouldn't have passed my 8th grade english teacher. Tense problems, spelling problems, punctuation problems, etc.
And then there's the people who proudly proclaim that all EVNs are garbage and worship translations of JVNs that are slower than an inchworm.
Wouldn't it take just as much time to create and model all those individual items in 3D? Also, what free renderer would you recommend? I can never get cracked vray to work with sketchup pro (cracked too), and there is no way I can afford a 700 dollar program.
Just download some free models and slap them together
Some of the top Japanese VNs use shoddy 3D low-res backgrounds, you can too!
i feel like a lot of the most well-loved jvn have some very shoddy writing too. this could be because of the translation, but i refuse to believe a bad translation could result in the terribly slow pacing of clannad, or all the unfunny slapstick comedy that segues into incredibly OTT and eyeroll-inducing melodrama.
i really can't think of many jvn that i'd say have 'good' writing. there are some jvn i like, that i think have great stories or well fleshed out characters, but not great prose or incredible dialogue.
i know it's not necessarily a fair comparison because of tl issues, but i don't think there's anything inherently better about the writing in jvn compared to some evns. jvns just have a lot higher budgets, and more people working on them, so they look a lot prettier, they have more content, and they're overall a lot more polished.
This. Good writing is always a nice surprise, but in the end passable assets + polish is what matters. Also, specific stuff depending on the genre - like having waifus/husbandos in a romance game.
The high quality voice acting helps too. Even if you can't understand it or don't listen to the full line, it expresses emotion that a limited range of sprites can't. I find unvoiced VNs really dull.
i have a habit of turning voices off in vns because i read pretty quickly, and waiting for the vas to finish voicing their lines just feels like it slows everything down.
i know people really like vas and think they add more immersion, but for impatient people like me they can be kind of a pain.
at least we probably get easy to translate vns that look pretty and got relatively good sales in japan? i can't imagine why any company would bother picking up some small, no budget indie JVNs that got universally bad reviews - they generally tend to go for the nice-looking and popular-ish stuff
which probably also contributes to this myth that jvns are better than evns - because most of the jvns that get brought over are of relatively high quality presentation-wise, or they'd be no point going into the effort of releasing them
i'm talking in terms of long, story-oriented vns here, not nukige.
but clicking through fast and having the speakers' lines get cut off mid-sentence is distracting
and if you read really quick sometimes you only get a couple of syllables out of the va before you get onto the next bit of voiced dialogue
I don't see how it's distracting though. And most VN's will continue playing the voice if it's followed by narration or the unvoiced MC, which is nice to have in the background. It adds a lot of atmosphere even if you only listen to the first few syllables.
It can make a big difference in JVNs but they're also writing expecting it to be there. EVNs that know they won't have VAs have to do more with facial expressions, EMPHASIS, and ... pausing ... to get across emotional cues that would be subtly and easily done by a good actress.
This, but I don't turn them off. Only thing voice acting really adds to the experience for me is during really tense moments or sex, but bad voice acting can just as easily ruin it as well.
Jvns are almost always guaranteed to have better art, music, voice acting, and a higher production value all around, even the small ones. It's not just about the quality of the writing.
Nah, what JVNs like is...
... pausing between lines.
Although some translations just throw in ...'s that don't seem to serve any purpose or convey any meaning at all. Ellipses: the true Eternal Punishment.
>better art, music, voice acting, and a higher production value all around, even the small ones
This probably proves the point of the person you're responding to: you're only looking at the prettier JVNs.
There are JVNs that have MUCH worse production values than many EVNs. But nobody talks about them because why would we?
I think the japanese just have far better resources available to them for vn creation with it being actually fairly popular over there. In the west you're working on something very niche, with a low budget, if one at all. They're also often made by mostly by one guy, a random bunch of people who met over the internet, or through commissioning others for content the dev can't provide. I think it says a lot when by far and away the best western vn I've seen in terms of overall quality and production value is
That's just my understanding of things from what I've seen. If I'm wrong, feel free to blow me the fuck out.
Not everyone has 3 years to make one game.
As much as I disliked it as a vn, I have to agree that its overall quality is quite impressive considering the circumstances.
Being as unbiased as possible, I still think
unteralterbach, while not technically an evn, annihilates it on every front. And that was made by mostly one guy in only two years.
>nice to talk
Err...I wouldn't be so sure of that, but I'm glad for you anon. I work alone too hoping some day my games
without waifus/husbandosbe noticed. May your hopes and dreams come true.
That's a pretty terrible way to view things. The games/vns/whatever that get noticed, talked about, and praised aren't always the best, and vice versa. Could be a gem that nobody has even really bothered to give a chance because it didn't come from a big, well known studio. At the very least, someone thought it was good enough to translate.
>seems to finally be nearing its death throes
i like /ksg/ but i wanted /evn/'s opinions of it
im assuming im just going to get the same levels of hate /a/ and /v/ gave me
Why should we bother hating it? We just don't see the point in discussing it when it has its own place.
We pretty much only talk about it here from a business perspective, what they've done with it, what it would cost to do the same if people didn't volunteer, what's happened to the crew since then, etc.
After looking forward to it throughout its development I'm of the opinion that it's a subpar vn with easily one of the worst fanbases I've ever seen.
But, I'm impressed with and really respect the devs for making it.
Not really. They talk about theactual content of the game that led them into madness occasionally as one would expect. The rest of the time it's just Katawa Shoujo themed blogging.
It's an average work (when you put in the amount of "contribution" it takes over years of time) that is only ever this infamous due to viral shameless advertising they pulled.
Am I just jealous? Not in particular. They are just an unruly bunch of elitists.
I feel bad for the anon who just wanted one or two opinions on KS. /evn/ is so jelly and booty bothered by it's success, you guys literally can't do anything but bitch about it.
Anon, if you're still here, any opinion by one or two of these salty nodevs is probably already what you heard before.
good. has much feelings. Some routes a shit.
Hanako best girl
Personally, the writing is what I had the most issues with.
Why would you feel bad for them? He wanted opinions, he got opinions. Only one of them is marginally inflammatory towards KS.
>jelly when a 8 years old work is still mentioned even now
Humor me more, son. From a group that insisted on perfections from others and scorned on amateurism, that piece of work is flawed.
Precisely, but since they demanded everyone to be perfect, obviously everyone would expect them to keep to their words. But apparently they either loved their sprites from the early demo
(or just ran out of suckers to make new ones)to use them for the final work.
Sure, I might be unfair to judge the work based on its makers, but they demanded standard so it's obvious for me to look for it too.
You think that hasn't happened a thousand times already? Even a lot of /ksg/ regulars now openly state how bad certain things are and no longer treat it like the holy grail of vns like they used to.
As for me, I couldn't stand Rin's route and promptly uninstalled KS after getting her nonsensical good end.
>as far as i know the general consensus from /ksg/ is that the devs are a bunch of drooling dumbfucks
I really enjoyed reading their blog for the discussions on vns as a medium
>they all left the project unfortunately, and4ls is now made up of tards who hate their own product
oh, I haven't caught up with the team. I thought the original group said their dev team is over now that KS is released and done. Had no idea a bunch of new dudes took over.
I don't know how bad the current group is, but it is the the previous members who proclaimed that they are the best while everyone else is amateur and lazy.
You might enjoy their blogs, but I just cannot help but notice a tinge of "We are the best and here's why" writing all over it when I last checked on it.
Any places like LSF or even here, provided there isn't a new work released just recently. Mind you, those can be... distracting for your own good.
>tfw you released the beta and clashed with one bigshot translation work and your proofreaders were too busy reading that
>You might enjoy their blogs, but I just cannot help but notice a tinge of "We are the best and here's why" writing all over it when I last checked on it.
Last time I read it, they had that typical newdev attitude of "oh, i know how vns usually are, because we played and know so many, we're going to make something better" but they wrote an afterthought post saying that was their original attitude, now they know better and that their final product really isn't anything new and really derivative of typical japanese schlock. Basically, 4 years of deving and they finally understand how hard as shit it is so understandably they disbanded.
They're going to show off their best stuff to hook people in. That's just business. Hopefully you didn't pay them upfront and can get them to match the quality they were showing off.
Oh that happened to me recently too. I only had them for a logo but the final product was not as good as they advertised... since its been four times I would recommend speaking up and not being quiet like me.
As long as you can dangle their paycheck over their heads, it should be fine. It can be difficult working out a deal with an artist who will accept payment after their done though. It's really easy to get burned that way.
they do a LOT of photobashing and trying to hide the fact that they're painting over copy/pastes
the most i have ever offered was $300 because i thought the artist was a professional, but then they sent me back a photoshop job so now im not sure how to tell them it's not going to work
the most infuriating thing about the current artist is that i sent them a concept image, which they cut up and pasted into their new image
so not only are they photobashing, they're photobashing another artist's work
when i think of loads of pausing in vns i automatically think of ryukishi haha.
i think it says something about how good his characters are that he can have ridiculous hammy scenes of characters yelling things like I NEVER LOVED YOOOOOOOOOOOOU or whatever and the scene is still effective and emotional.
Since his writing style isn't great, I feel like I shouldn't like his work as much as I do, but I still do.
If I were the artist I would've sent over my progress every so often and discussed things to make sure it aligned with what the patron wanted. If they didn't do that, I think it's on them. Maybe this is just me, but they're not being paid to pump out an image, they're being paid to satisfy the patron. If you thought you were done, but they aren't happy with it, you should work on it until they are.
But, I wouldn't have accepted the job without being paid at least half in advance either. It's really easy for both parties to get burned unless you go half and half, unless the artist has a reputation to maintain in which case they'd probably want the full amount upfront.
I'm not the other anon but LSF bg artists who actually put out work are not available (Badriel, sendo, tempsu). Even new artists are closed for fucks sake.
Everyone who seems like a productive artist is booked and recently I've turned to conceptart.org. But with this charade I'm having second thoughts of hiring artists there.
it will have to go in the post-mortem honestly
im not interested in having a big todo about this while im still trying to finish production
all the writing/etc is complete, i just need the art assets and im finding that's a much more difficult task than expected.
we are different people. i am not the above anon, i am the one that is having issues with the sketchy artist
I need about 14 BGs set in a medieval city. And it's kind of weird now how similar i am to above
I also need some minor stuff like a black BG with bloodspray on it, or putting some minor edits into existing BGs
>urban modern city
No wonder you've shortlisted a 3D artist (not sure about tempsu).
I can, maybe, do the interior's but the streets would be way out of my league.
Not sure about the quality you're looking for, but to be honest I'm not really into another background work which is why I've raised my current rate to $50 ~ $80 per piece.
Okay so most in-demand work clearly goes to background artists.
that should be expected tbh. Much harder/longer work that gets much less recognition and appreciation by the players. The thing most people notice is the sprites; you could get away with well-filtered photo backgrounds, tbh.
im really more interested in just not paying for it. thankfully i had the artist sign a contract beforehand that stated i could terminate the commission if the art wasnt acceptable
Hi costs? Remember that there's a third worlder who has equal/better skill than your western artist, but at a cheaper price.
Not to mention they aren't as whinny and emotional. "Muh feels over specs"
So it seems mystic messenger no longer has a blinding GUI.
High costs? Third worlders not good or cheap enough? Remember that you can always save up for a few months. The world won't end because your VN didn't come out fast enough and the first impression sticks.
Just do it right the first time.
>impressive mecha list
>all ruined by different art styles
Don't do this to yourself and your project.
>>all ruined by different art styles
Games can and do succeed despite some whiner claiming they are 'ruined' by their artistic choices.
Of course, I say this before looking.
That mix-and-match is definitely weird but since they're planning to go for kickstarter maybe they intend to replace it.
Even if they don't, they're still going to be more successful with a mix of good art styles than with one terrible one. (But obviously, a single good style would be better.)
I think its just the edited version of this exact same image.
More bloom, some saturation adjustment, color select + adjustment etc.
I was just browsing through LSF and found this really odd old thread. It was about a guy trying to make a fanmade sequel to Juniper's Knot, but wanted to charge money for it, and possibly take control of the IP. Then he twisted what was said to him and his interpretation of copyright law in order to say he could do what he wanted with the game. Does this kind of thing happen often, or was this guy just nuts?
I assume the project is dead. But I wonder what finally made him stop. Was it the fear of getting sued and realizing that he couldn't make money on the project? Or was it the team issues the group was having at the time?
This guy is just stupid (not to say retarded). He's pretty well known for being an egoistical prick that bashes on every EVN and believes he will be the EVN scene savuor while he himself never managed to create anything concrete.
Ever heard of Chris-chan? Crazy people who believe liking something gives them rights over it are everywhere.
Fuck, dA, Newgrounds and tumblr kind of built themselves based on those people.
>an egoistical prick that bashes on every EVN and believes he will be the EVN scene savuor while he himself never managed to create anything concrete.
This describes far more people in the EVN scene than just that guy.
>This describes far more people in the EVN scene than just that guy.
Is it really necessary to make that same comment every single time someone comments on a negative quality of a VN developer? Like fucking clockwork, holy shit.
We get it, you hate everyone here but won't leave.
Its a pretty well known project from a pretty well known dev.
I won't deny that there are others VN dev that fill those criteria, but this guy is really a pain IMO. He's been trying to steal some of my team members by badmouthing my project, and I'm pretty sure he tried the same on a lot of other projects. And overall, most of his posts reek of disrespect toward the EVN scene.
I swear. I cringe so much I am getting goosebumps.
(tbh tempsu sounds a lot better. Maybe I should start using that)
Also, don't forget Konett, they do really nice work. Auro too, though I'm not sure if she's offered BG commissions before. (And she seems super busy right now.)
That seems to happen quite a bit in my observation. It's the whole "fast, good quality, cheap — pick two" thing. Generally if you've got a really good artist whose cheap and fast they're going to be phoning it in and advertising with their good stuff.
I love that I don't even need to look to know who that is. Another funny thing he did was try to act as the agent to one of the HRP artists early this year and ban their work from appearing in it or something. As I recall I made an excellent snarky comment to him in the HRP WIP thread (basically a thinly veiled "fuck off") which was moderated out. He was also planning to buy Dischan at one point.
The best thing about him is that he's literally so out of touch and crazy that if you give him enough rope he'll just hang himself. Reminds me of the title of that Dali painting, 'Young Virgin Auto-Sodomized by the Horns of Her Own Chastity' (pic related)
Does he just keep creating new accounts once his old handles attract too much bad will? I hope you tell your team members about his history, because he sounds like nothing but trouble. Even his former team members in that old thread had nothing but negative things to say about him. It sounds like he just wants to leech off people once he finds them to be somewhat capable.
>try to act as the agent to one of the HRP artists early this year and ban their work from appearing in it or something.
I'm starting to worry that he's going to pretend to be a doctor or lawyer at some point. He keeps trying to get into roles that would give him authority and notoriety.
That's basically what he does, but he's not that hard to recognize. Fortunately, all of my team members already know about him, so there shouldn't be any real issue.
The scariest thing is that he does manage to bait some people into his projects because he knows how to talk big. I remember that he managed to convince a fairly skilled artist to work on his project (rumors say that he shows some money upfront to attract people), and even animenz (famous youtuber who makes anime OST piano covers). But of course the project never got past the point of concept, and it got abandoned. What saddens me the most is that those skilled people probably won't ever try to work on EVN again after this bitter experience.
I'm not sure. For this particular project, I remember him having an internal strife with the guy he had recruited as a project manager. Also don't quote me on that, but I think he's very young, maybe 16-17 now? I'm not sure though.
It's possible to have one of the artist trying to adapt to the other. That's basically what we did since our main artist was unable to draw male characters, we had to recruit someone and have her adapt to the art style. It took a bit of time, but it is getting very similar now.
Since when were AJ Tilley's games developed by a third party?
>AJTilley.com will continue to work as a publisher of third party games for the moment, focusing on the completion of Beach Bounce, releasing updates for Divine Slice of Life and finishing Starlight Drifter with the teams they already have in place.
>Our in-house development studio however will separate completely from AJTilley.com under the new name of Dharker Studio, where we will focus purely on our own game development. This will likely mean some changes will be made to the current development schedule and structure, but all changes will be done in order to create better games based on what we have now learnt.
Nope they aren't supposed to appear like that, it's just because I've done a half-assed copy paste here. The girl is supposed to appear much lower. Though for the head size, it is supposed to stay that way, it's part of the main artist's style, but it would have been awkward to reproduce on male characters (we tried it, and the character looked like a 12 year-old)
Konett flaked out of Hanako's project. When Konet reopened commissions, Hanako asked about the unfinished work.
It just stood out to me because Hanako herself posted in the thread about the issue.
But if >>120718361 is Hanako, everything is resolved. I may actually try asking for her availability.
I get what you mean. I kept getting the vibe that the guy wanted to tear off Jeremy's face and wear it as a mask.
There's also the possibility >>120718302
mentioned, that he's just some kid who thinks he can just do as he pleases. the question then would be where the money >>120717502
mentioned came from.
>I may actually try asking for her availability.
Just do it paying per asset and PayPal might refund you if Konett flakes again.
I don't buy this "communication issues" thing that stops them from replying to clients they already accepted but not from opening up threads.
So a few years later he apparently finally moved from episode 0 to episode 1
Despite its upcoming release date on VNDB I am not so sure this is actually a VN.
I was supposed to get an email from the grant people telling me I could release the demo. Apparently there was a delay with judging? Or something.
In the meantime, have more progress.
you should ditch the artist who can only draw large head girls and keep the new recruit who's probably more adept at drawing a variety of things. Her male sprite is more appealing than the female sprite whose face looks like it's melting off the sides.
oh god, look at this spread eyed nigga. And his left arm is bigger than his right.
It's harder to ignore people on Steam forums, because then you're obviously ignoring a group of people.
You could try claiming that you don't think you could write those kinds of characters well, or that your creative process is very specific and doesn't let you just add elements on demand.
Handy guide to Being Accused Of Shit:
First, don't panic and don't respond quickly, whatever you do, Give yourself time to think.
Second, examine whether their complaint is in any way correct. Think about it seriously, don't dismiss it immediately and don't cave immediately either. Do they have a point, or are they completely mental?
If they're completely mental it's entirely possible that other people on your forums are going to jump in and point out to them how wrong they are. This is good for you, you would probably prefer the first rebuttal not to come from you. In any case, if they are just flat-out wrong to the point that anyone sane can see they are wrong, what you eventually need to do is calmly explain the misunderstanding and lock the thread, leaving it visible.
If they are not 100% wrong, is their point at all relevant? Is there anything practical you could actually do about it even if you agreed with them? Maybe they've just pointed out that you wrote a Mighty Whitey plotline without thinking about it, and damn, they're right, but that's the whole storyline so you can't exactly change it. OR maybe they've just pointed out that you named a minor character Whore in Russian by mistake and you could easily fix it.
Never, ever, ever under any circumstances even think about changing a major element. Even if you agree with the criticism. You are going to have to ride that one out and hope you learn from the experience.
>You could try claiming that you don't think you could write those kinds of characters well, or that your creative process is very specific and doesn't let you just add elements on demand.
If the complaint is just "You never include trans characters!" then yes, the above is a pretty good category of answer, particularly if it's true. The helpful hedges of "I'm not ruling it out but I don't have current plans" will also quiet most people asking this sort of question.
Still best to ignore them. Attention only feeds. People screaming for you to change your own creation need to get bent. If they want a trans game so bad they need to spend months making it.
Context helps. If people are screaming at you to change a predefined character in an existing work, then they're obviously crazy. If they're asking for you to write trans characters in the future, then it's fine for them to want that but you're not obligated to provide it any more than you're obligated to write a story about gay vampires if that's not what you're into.
If you're writing a game where you get to design your own player character and you can be either male or female, requesting extra options is suddenly a lot more relevant. They're still not entitled to get everything they want, but the request would suddenly make a lot more sense.
Even the sorts of people who are driven to write you and complain about your game and ask for change requests are not always completely horrid, and can be reasoned with. Some can't, some are dreadful little trolls looking for someone to bully. Others just have their opinion of what matters and what they care about, but can eventually come to understand that not everyone agrees with them AND that not all disagreement is malicious.
One of the worst traits of modern internet arguments is the growing assumption that anyone not following your party line is acting in bad faith. Asking a question? You're DERAILING. You're CONCERN TROLLING. You're MANSPLAINING. All these buzzwords are handy ways to disregard anything people say to you and not have to engage with them.
If you can find someone who's willing to actually read your questions and reply to them they generally turn out to be a lot more reasonable.
>If you're writing a game where you get to design your own player character and you can be either male or female, requesting extra options is suddenly a lot more relevant.
What extra options could there be? Last time I checked trans people were still men and women.
>Asking a question? You're DERAILING. You're CONCERN TROLLING. You're MANSPLAINING.
sorry, I lost my train of thought. I meant to add: people who fall into this line of thinking genuinely believe that your questions are all fake and that you don't want answers. They assume bad faith up front, and because they think you're trolling, they won't either listen to you or explain their own reasoning to you. So no one accomplishes anything.
>What extra options could there be? Last time I checked trans people were still men and women.
Well, the fallen london people got a lot of mileage out of a 'none of your business' gender option.
And a lot of people in MMORPGs want the freedom to define their characters with any mix of attributes they like, instead of being forced to pick from Male Set and Female Set. Back in City of Heroes, there was a particular set of options on the male character set which was quite well known as the popular choice for people who wanted to write their characters as Women Heroically Cross-Dressing. Being a girl in disguise is a popular thing for an RPer, and it's impossible to pull off if the character models are strongly dimorphic.
I'm not trans and am not sure what they want out of a character designer, I'm not sure they do either. But if someone came to you with a specific request, like "I want to be able to make a long-haired guy", and it's feasible, it might be worth considering.
>OR maybe they've just pointed out that you named a minor character Whore in Russian by mistake and you could easily fix it.
The only things I'd be willing to fix in a vn once its launched are: typos/grammar issues, any inconsistencies in the story, and any programming issues that may arise.
Before launch I'd have a few people look over the script and beta test, so the vn should be in decent shape by launch.
Nonbinary and intersex people are a thing. Personally, I'd opt for three "base" character designs if I had to limit it: something feminine, something masculine and then an androgynous design.
I'm not sure that naming a minor character that is something I'd consider actually in need of a fix, but I was trying to come up with something small off the top of my head. Certainly renaming an extremely minor character, if the name meant nothing in the first place, isn't a big deal and it's something that I feel COULD be done if it were necessary.
When using something like the Hanako Games title issue as an example, she'd need new promo images and a new title screen, which would cost her money. It could also cause confusion among consumers. Given the reason for the requested change is people willfully choosing how they interpret the title, when the meaning they attribute to it isn't even in the dictionary, then I wouldn't even entertain doing it. Made-up slang is hard to keep track of anyway.
>willfully choosing how they interpret the title
Any time the game name comes up in conversation a handful of people jump straight to that conclusion as the intent, no 'willful choosing' involved.
Do you even understand how being intersex works? There's a spectrum to it, and some people identify as male or female, or their parents had their baby's genitals modified to BE closer to one or the other, but it's not a given for all intersex people.
Chromosomes, for example:
Intersex: XXY, XO and a few other variations IIRC.
There's also those who appear male for the most part but lack a penis, as another example.
And few games do that, but many games do give you the choice between 'tiny waiflike incredibly curvy girl' and 'huge hulking muscular guy' and leave a lot of people feeling left out.
We have actually seen a request for customisable genitals because some men feel that they can't connect with Faceless Hentai Protagonist if his penis doesn't look like their penis.
>a handful of people
Is still not most people. And that definition is not an official one. I didn't even know what 'Netflix and chill' meant until I googled it after coming across the phrase in a fanfiction.
>Who wants to recreate their fucked up genetic condition ingame?
Are you replying to the wrong comment there? I was pointing out that many people do not want to be stuck being either a tiny curvy waif or a huge muscular hulk. That hardly requires having a fucked-up genetic condition.
Now, adding a more androgynous option may not be practical, given how your game's art is designed, but do you really think no one wants the option?
Sure, it's not most people, but it's also not accurate to suggest that it's never been an issue.
As for a definition not being official, remember what happened to McDonald's with the "I'd hit it" campaign?
Score! I don't have one yet.
It's an appeal that can't really be replicated in video games. I am a bit of a voyeur in terms of wanting to poke around people's stuff and learn about their lives. I love junky antique shops, and I'm always into the 'cozy catastrophe' fiction where most of the world dies or disappears but you get to loot everything and live high (for awhile).
I mean, pretty soon I'd starve because of the lack of food production and my lack of useful skills, but.
>new sprites for HRP
>anatomy is worse than before
I AM THE BOOB
for real though the style looks a lot better but the boobs ruin everything
They aged up their loli girl too
not sure how i feel about that
I think it's salvagable if they take some of the roundness out of the top of her breasts and loosen up the sweater.
I like the new art a lot though, and I've seen worse, so this is just a little awkward.
I was a little hesitant after their demo but I appreciate that the HRP devs seem to be addressing criticisms and making an attempt to improve. Their yuri thing doesn't seem have bad either.
Definitely able to be fixed.
You should get one of your other artists to spot check this kind of thing so it doesn't happen. It's a really obvious issue so more eyes = better.
Ah, hi. I don't wanna cause any trouble, but I was speaking more from how it was written in a technical standpoint. Delivery of prose, descriptions and monologues are rather to the point. I know the content of the demo was slow, but I wasn't trying to speak for that. Sorry for the misconception.
Oh anon did it better than me so I'm not posting my redraw. Just a thing to add, the shading of the turtle neck got this strong v shape shadow, which gives the illusion she got a bigger jaw. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear.
>One thing that we’ll be doing a little differently from other VN’s
HRP with the "we're just better than everyone else" attitude yet again. If you're lurking, raithfyre/syon, stop saying stuff like this.
So they absolutely needed to point out how this is different from other VNs? They couldn't have just said "we're using a camera plug-in!", they absolutely HAD to say "this is different from other VNs! We're special!"
"we're just so much better than those OTHER VNs who didn't copy/paste some code from lemmasoft and act revolutionary."
Because it's basically calling out every other dev when you say shit like that?
Why are you so butthurt by my butthurt? Part of the HRP team?
I'm just salty that they made 40k, to be honest.
Not him but the concept of throwing others under the bus as a pitch will naturally make others mad. Also who has done a full anlysis on evn using the camera? It's been around since 2012 as a free to use asset.
I don't think the intention was to throw other VNs under the buss. The camera plugin is legitimately something not every EVN uses. It's not like that kickstarter shit when they listed off reasons they were superior to everyone else.
They didn't throw anyone under the bus. They literally said "one thing we're doing differently." No "we're better because we're doing it." Just "differently." Fuck this entire attitude that pervades these threads.
And the camera is a new plugin made by the people who made the Fault series. Maybe something like it existed before, but you can see it used in Fault Milestone 2.
I'd say this is fair enough criticism if you remember what Raithfyre said the in original Kickstarter pitch. It's clear they don't think much about other developers, and would like to use us as a stepping stone if possible.