>>24626723 that some have weird balance measures like how milotic can't learn calm mind for example, which should compense gyarados's dragon dance, however gyarados on its own doesn't have any form of recovery outside of rest fair enough, i'm fairly sure competitive was given to it to as answer to gyarados intimidate and dragon dance, there's no other explanation
heracross and scizor or pinsir or whatever is the threesome also ended very well with the mega introduction all have their niche
slowking and bellossom are probably the ones that have suffered the most since still cannot really compete with their counterparts, same for mismagius that got overshadowed by other ghosts and honchkrow in usage
rest is whatever
carnivine should have been a weepinbell evo with the same victreebel bst and bellsprout egg moves
>>24626894 And Staraptor and Talonflame are better than Pidgeot, Diggersby is better than Raticate, Conkeldurr is better than Machamp, Excadrill is better than Sandslash, Tyrantrum is the best fossil mon, Ferrothorn is better than Exeggutor and the list goes on.
Diggersby is better than Raticate, but Watchog, Furret, Linoone and Bibarel are not (unless you dig up a 10 year old GC game in Linoone's case). All those Pokemon would be better off, it if wasn't for Game Freak's determination to make the next Raticate.
>>24626949 >Slowking, Empoleon, Alomomola and Vaporeon Slowking is the only one of those examples that is good all around. The others rely on the situations they find themselves in. Empoleon is Earthquake bait. Alomomola can't take on hard-hitting special attackers. And Vaporeon needs significant set-up to start being good.
>>24626781 >Bouffalant not better than Tauros >Alomomola not better than Luvdisc >Garbodor not better than Muk >Woobat not better than Zubat >Whimsicott/Lilligant not better than Vileplume/Victreebel >Audino not better than Chansey >still liking Golem over Gigalith
>>24627051 Bibarel, Linoone, and Furret are actually all better than Raticate. Bibarel for its abilities, Linoone for Belly Drum and a vastly better movepool, and Furret for utility in Frisk, Trick, and Knock Off. Raticate has nothing beyond a shitty Guts/Hustle set that's far too slow (and Sucker Punch doesn't help much).
>>24627435 >>24627506 >>24627540 >veiny, clown Machamp >bigger Luvdisc >Magneton, but with gears >Bert and Ernie versions of the Hitmons >pink Drowzee >Poliwrath, now with more warts Wow, what an amazing generation. Truly the pinnacle of the series.
>>24626723 Typically I like them. Gyarados and Milotic are a great example of it, really. Outside of people unexpectedly powerful serpentine evolutions from dopey fish, and BST, they change up a lot of things about them that make them still feel like their own and not just rip offs of each other. >One is focused on power, the other beauty >One requires tedious level grinding with something weak, while the other formerly required believing something to be beautiful when it was ugly >One is extremely rare while the other, extremely common
Pinsir, Heracross and Scizor make a really nice trio too. They're fun ideas.
>>24628795 Yes because Conkeldurr has a different concept that it needs to channel through its design
>>24628813 Exactly. Machamp is a super powered body builder/wrestler with some Hindu deity influence while Conkeldurr is an ogre/construction worker/strongman carnie.
What's interesting is that they both start having artificial objects by the middle stage (Machoke's belt and Gurdurr's Girder) and the last stage doubles their weapons (Machamp gets an extra pair of arms and Conkeldurr holds two construction materials instead of one) and despite the similarity in evolutionary patterns, they are still aesthetically different. Look at fighting type fakemons of the "premier" regional fighting type before gen V--they are simply muscular humanoids with no defining feature. Basically Machamp with a different color, hair, shorts but still a wrestler/body builder. Conkeldurr showed that GF could still make another Machamp without recycling their old inspirations.
However this isn't to say they have done excellently in gameplay as they should have done more to differentiate the two in terms of stats and movepool. Shame especially because I think both are amazing and would like to use both in a team
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