Whatever happened to the shmup general? Seems like it's been at least two months since I saw one.
I'm playing three games right now: Gradius (X68k port by Sharp), Final Crisis, and Zanac AI. First two are great, but the last one's hitbox programming must be screwy; it seems the shield weapon has too small a hitbox compared to how it appears on-screen, which has lead me into cheap deaths time and time again. I'm considering switching to Zanac EX/FDS, but I find that version lass manipulable and AI still has its moments.
Star Force is fun, too, from what I just played.
You ever play Grind Stormer? It does some things that were really ahead of its time in 93, it's pretty neat to see which chunks of that game went on to influence games from studios formed by ex Toaplan devs.
I softmodded my Saturn memory card discovered Batltle Garegga which i consider a gift of god but I'm always getting ass handed to me same with Darius Gaiden, Gunbird and Rayforce/Galatic Attack. Also how i do play Terra Divers im confused by it
Started playing Thuder Force 4 (well, lightning force for the framerate). It took a few game overs but I've finally made it to the final stage. I'm yet to beat it, but I think this might be one of my favourite shmups, right next to R-type Delta and Gradius Gaiden.
I think you meant to say horizontal. I get what you mean though, Music is top tier, its challenging and very fast paced, the weapons are all great. I love in the last level
when a bunch of allied ships appear and help you out, then equip you to look like the ship in the intro sequence.That shit was fucking cool.
I think it earns a place in my triforce of perfect hori shooters: Gradius Gaiden, R-Type Delta, Thunder Force 4.
I cleared Crimzon Clover Boost for the first time.
Still fucked up the scoring, though...
We've had shmup generals on /vr/ for a long time because the subject matter is way too niche for it to work on /vg/. The amount of posts in these are so slow that a single thread can last upwards to 40+ days sometimes.
No, but it's a very important aspect of it
>like a minute of staying still and shooting near the end of stage 1
Some may say it's just one shitty example but it captures just how lazy and full of padding the "level design" in horizontal scrollers was
How about you try killing the enemies before they fill the screen with bullets next time. Or do you not like the fact that the games don't let you take frequent naps like horizontal scrollers do?
>Just 1cced Satazius on Insane finally. Yesterday I almost 1LCed it but totally lost my nerves on the endboss and still managed to lose all my lives to it.
It's a fucking great game isn't it? I'm in the same boat btw keep choking the 1lc to the stage 5 boss rush which is a shit ton harder than the games final boss. Strategy for final boss is all aggression first form = point blank the top and bottom blue pods with laser and missiles it kills the first form before it does anything, 2nd form point blank centre core then move back and up and down to avoid those homing things leaving charge bomb to remove 3rd form without doing anything and then the final form which is basically just up and down. My only gripe against this awesome game is not having online leaderboards on steam.
The game is definitely one of my favorite shmups. But I find the weapons are kinda unbalanced. The blue shot which goes up- and down-wards and seeks enemies is basically a must-have, since it's just too effective. The rocket shot which shoots multiple rockets forward is also pretty OP since it does a shitton of damage and still almost covers the whole screen when upgraded. And the special shot from R-Type is also OP since you just can kill almost every enemy in one shot with it. Add to this that you get a bunch of weapon only later on without being able to upgrade them earlier and you always only end up with one and the same weapons.
But yea, the final boss is not that hard once you have the patterns down. I find the hardest enemy in the game is the 4th boss of stage 5. The one which shoots rockets from above and below and the same time shoots lasers from the front. It's alwys a pain to dodge the rockets especially since they can kill you with one hit even if you have the shield. I find the best tactic against him is to use the rocket shot and trying to destroy the enemy's rockets with it, but it's quite difficult.
Some people enjoy when the devs actually make an attempt at level design before assuming players are satisfied just sliding a hitbox around a screen while dodging teh epic bullet spirals of doom.
>I find the best tactic against him is to use the rocket shot and trying to destroy the enemy's rockets with it, but it's quite difficult.
Agreed, i've found the best method is to use the missile/rockets and start at the top of the screen this way it destroys a bunch off screen before they come down, it's still a bitch though. Level 2 onwards i use laser always and homing shot+ missiles for the secondary.
Do you mean the homing shot from Thunder Force? The blue ball laser? I also liked to use this instead of the missiles, since I thought it could be quite effective against boss enemies, since you always can directly aim at the core of the boss, but I find even there the missiles are just better.
For stages (not boss fights) I find the enemy seeking laser which shoots up and downwards is the best. It's pretty effective against small enemies from front and behind, and even covers everything above and below you.
mechanically you're always sliding around a hitbox to avoid other hitboxes.
the sequence and patterns of teh epic spirals of doom is essentially the level design, i mean to really simplify things they're the equivalent of the hori corridors but they look like bullets rather than rocks or metal walls
i think part of the problem people have is that a hail of bullets sometimes has less character -and might seem lower effort- than the nicely made environment graphics of hori shooters
I should really strive towards that 2-ALL, but every time I start playing, I get disencouraged by single death in first loop and lay off the game for a while.
Maybe I should try to clear 2nd loop first from savestate in one go?
Play better games. You can abstract anything into "move a defined zone that triggers "lose game" state if intersected by another zone defined as harmful". It's not about bullets, it's not about how many walls there are. What matters is that the sort of challenges you throw at player are fun and distinct.
I don't personally like horis. Maybe it's because I really don't like Gradius or R-Type...
Personally DOJ 2-5 is my favourite shmup stage of all time.
Starting from the 2nd loop is the best idea, until you can get it down semi-consistently. Only then should you start going for full runs.
It's funny because I made a video of a 1 miss Hibachi just now. If that's you playing in that webm, I sure hope you're never planning on following that route.
I suppose so. 1st loop is pretty boring, anyway. Otherwise I am pretty comfortable with most of game's challenges. Only some things need bit of practice like:
> 2-5 boss forms before Hibachi
> Fucking 2-4 cartridges
Is there any tricks to the cartridges?
Won't arse with scoring.
But yeah, both webms are mine.
There aren't any tricks to the cartridges. They spawn at random places and move towards random directions. Memorize the spawn points of the enemies and get used to the amount of damage that the cartridges take before they explode.
>Won't arse with scoring.
But scoring is the fun part! Seriously though, if you're bored of going through the 1st loop, then trying to full-chain a couple stages will definitely make it more interesting for you.
I don't think Gradius is the best example. I've only played 1, 3 and Gaiden though (and only as Vic Viper and Lord British in Gaiden). Both the double shot and laser are effective at different parts of the game and are nicely balanced if you use them accordingly.
However with Lord British, once you've gotten the level 2 disruptor beam, there isn't much reason to go back to the wave.
R-type might be a better example, since only the red power-up utilizes your bits. It would be cool if the bits improved your blue and yellow power ups.
>>2743610 Grind Stormer is great. I've only played a little bit but I enjoyed the power ups and being able to change how the side cannons are aimed. I think Sol-Deace had a similar feature with being able to aim the "arms" of the ship.
I also prefer environmental hazards from time to time, but if you are sitting in a space ship, then it somehow makes sense that you are not always flying through caves.
I think both styles are great but verties seem a bit lazy sometimes. They often have really detailed background graphics therefor though.
You can make stages that have a presence to them without any environmental hazards. Layer Section feels more like a believable journey than almost all horizontal scrollers I've played, yet it has almost no environmental hazards to speak of. It has more to do with the art direction and how the enemies move in the world than a bunch of big floating hitboxes.
Layer Section crossed my mind earlier. Little things like how the enemies move in the background, the seamless level transitions and the way you go from space to the atmosphere come together to show a vertical shooter can also place you in a world. I think it takes greater care by the developers not to ignore these details in a vertical shooter than in a horizontal one. It also helps when the bullets are sparse enough they can plausibly be some kind of energy weapon and not just shmup bullet curtains.
It's hard to name arcade releases that DON'T have detailed backgrounds of real places with enemies coming out of the environments, flying on a lower plane or just moving on the ground. CAVE games have that, Raizing games have that, Psikyo games have that, Toaplan games have that, Takumi games have that, It's only a problem in SOME indie games like Touhou and ones it inspired. Even then there's plenty of indie bullet hell games with lovingly crafted environments like Jamestown, Crimzon Clover and the Alltynex games.
Obviously we're not talking about the handful of 90s arcade games you like to jerk your dick to. Every fucking thread you assholes act like Takumi and Raizing are the only shmups. Also I don't think you understand what's being discussed here or you wouldn't cite CAVE games, the complete antithesis of having a gameworld.
>complete anthithesis of having a gameworld
lmao are you for real? Guwange even had walls you couldn't move through
Does anyone here dislike RayStorm? I always thought it was cool, but booting it up again it plays like shit. Slow ship speed is fighting against trying to lock on things. Bullet colors is orange in stage 1, but a dull purple in stage 2 that blends in with the water, almost everything is a ramming type enemy, lock on reticle is so far away that I can't hit enemies down the screen. I still don't know what the pick ups do other than knowing that there are green, red, blue crystals. It's a messy game unless you actually know this game already.
Not me. The ship's speed isn't the fastest but I found that with the way enemy waves come out it feels very natural to lock onto them. At least once you figure out a good order to do so. It feels smoother than it was in RayForce at times. No idea what you mean when you say that most of the enemies are ramming-type, that's not true. Most of them don't even come close to you if you stay near the bottom of the screen. They just shoot and fuck off. Also the pick ups power up your different shot types.
Green gives you another lock on laser, red improves your regular attack, yellow I think does both and blue maxes you out. Raystorm has its flaws, but overall its a pretty solid game, my major gripe is that you're confined to a certain area, but since the camera pitches around it sometimes shows you areas (pretty much always in the top left or right corners) that are inaccessible. When you try to get to the top right or left of the screen, your ship slows down as you approach the edges and stops before you can reach the corner.
It's not a big deal once you get used to it, but its easy to forget about it in the moment if you've been playing other shmups, and it really fucks you up when you're trying to dodge projectiles. Also the projectiles aren't coloured well to stand out from the background most of the time.
>There aren't any tricks to the cartridges
Absolute truth, I always fuck up the chain here or whenever I try to get the secret extend.
>trying to full-chain a couple stages
Definitely this, getting full chains is the way to go on Daioujou, al least try full chaining the first two stages.
>since the camera pitches around it sometimes shows you areas (pretty much always in the top left or right corners) that are inaccessible
Because this is a 2.5D game, when you move to the sides, there are some peripheral areas (invisible walls) that you can't move past, and along with it, your shots are angled instead of going straight. So while this is indeed how perspective works, as a game mechanic it's really shit and frustrating when your angled shot won't align with that pesky popcorn enemy by an inch. It's a good point I forgot to mention.
>Also the projectiles aren't coloured well to stand out from the background most of the time.
This is one of the biggest issues. There's no color consistency in enemy bullets and they aren't colored very well.
>Green gives you another lock on laser, red improves your regular attack, yellow I think does both
2-2 is giving me strange amounts of asspain. 2-3 is easy to no-miss, 2-4 is another difficult one and 2-5 I have trained too much.
Goddamn. At least I could no-miss to the cartridges today.
What I am saying that for 2nd loop I am using just safe routes. I haven't paid too much attention to scoring because
as much as I love DOJBL I don't like the scoring system that much. It is ok, but I don't feel obliged to learn stage 3/4 full chains.
The perspective and player boundaries can be even worse when you're doing 2 player. Since the camera scrolls left and right as well, if the two players are on either side of the screen and either of them needs to move further outwards, say to dodge a bullet, then they're fucked. The screen stays where it is because the other player is anchoring it, and it won't zoom out because they didn't code it that way.
Despite these flaws, I really do like it. Music is fantastic, its a bright and colourful game (though fuck the bullets), and memorizing how to get the most lock on kills in each level provides a great challenge. Hell, its a vert with actual level design.
My mate has a physical copy that we play every now and then. I secretly practice in retroarch so that I may one day carry him through a 2p game.
I was playing the PSN version of Shienryu on my PS3 but got stuck when the level 6 boss didn't spawn. My ship just kept flying endlessly in space. Is this a known glitch?
Been playing this a lot lately. Such an amazing soundtrack spoiled by high pitched beam noises.
That feel when the best entry in the series has the least interesting artwork.
Yes, I've been playing ketsui lately since I just instaled shmupmame v4.2. Have been playing it for a month and I'm trying to play for score on the first loop, I actually got to 1-all it with a somewhat decent score, still i have to improve some things for the second loop.
GUH. 2hu truly is the eastern equivalent to MLP with how often sperglords like shoving that shit in places it just doesn't belong.
Good to see someone else playing Ketsui. I've been learning to score on the 1st loop as well.
That's crazy good score/progression for one month my man, good work. I'm ironing out alot of first loop also with 150/160 being around peak for the clear with my current strats without to many mistakes and 2-3 being current best survival wise. Ketsui just feels right though I can't see myself getting bored of it for ages if ever.
That's cool, Ketsui just feels so damn good. Once anyone gets the drill of scoring is just so inevitable to stop playing for score.
Thank you sir, Ketsui definitely a game that has always called my attention. I also was practicing a lot to get, al least, more than 120M on the first loop. This run wasn't meant to unlock Omote, I seriously don't know how to score that shit and always get to fail when it comes to macrododge suicide bullets. If I want to 2-ALL, I have to relearn the first loop in order to not miss so many times and also learn to use my bombs.
>If I want to 2-ALL, I have to relearn the first loop in order to not miss so many times and also learn to use my bombs.
How i learnt after devising a route for the first loop is force yourself to never bomb, that way i don't have to keep mental track of bombs+lives and it made me much more attentive and confident to going for everything as opposed to having clouded thinking and dropping a panic bomb. I dunno it works for me as like yourself i plan to go for the 2 all and probably keep pushing score after that also. 1st loop danger spots now are 80% stage 5 and the rest are 3/4 boss + midboss being occasionally random assholes.
That makes 3 of us going for a 2-ALL. Good luck, guys!
I plan all of them.
To get the most out of your hypers survival-wise, use 1 at a time. This way rank won't increase at a dramatic rate while still allowing you to make use of the increased fire-power. What you can also do is just keep 1 hyper on your ship constantly and use it as if it were a bomb. This can save you form rough spots. Though if you're still scared of using them, you can just let them fall off. Personally, I feel that the benefits of using a hyper far outweigh the detriments.
If you're looking to earn some bonus-points, it's still a good idea to save 5 hypers for the final stretch of stage 2.
I 1-ALL'd for the first time with a 111M score recently.
Haven't played since. I want to score better and try the second loop at some point, but the requirements seem pretty harsh even for Omote.
>I 1-ALL'd for the first time with a 111M score recently.
>Haven't played since. I want to score better and try the second loop at some point, but the requirements seem pretty harsh even for Omote.
Well i 1 alled it like 2 years ago and felt the same as you but then i came back and forced myself to play no bombs whatever happens and found it forced me to learn the game to a much better level, it really reveals it's awesomeness when you start going for the loop and learning routes in the stages instead of relying on bombs for a cheese 1-all... Go for it!.
The version I'm playing has all shot options mapped to one key as well, so it's fun to know that's not the case everywhere.
Right now I'm learning how best to dodge the Moai-head fire and do a no-miss run through stage 3, which is tough but I'm getting closer. At first I was playing a variant of Sharp's X68k port closer to the arcade, but now I'm using the floppy original (faster resetting helps) and rank is quicker to increase based on how many options you activate, only needing two before enemies and projectiles quicken. Maybe I'll jump back into this game at some point using MAME, I suppose, as I'm finishing up Final Crisis and eager to be done with Zanac.
Well your taste is certainly "interesting"... Mine are in no particular order
Ibara,Garegga,psyvariar revision and a couple others might appear on that list at a different time though.
Been playing it on and off for the better half od this year and I'm having a hard time scoring, by the time I hit 4th stage on the first loop I can only normally reach 45mil, anything you think I'm doing wrong? I'm also getting really close to wrapping up my first loop clear while I'm at it.
But holy shit, I know I'm definitely gonna be playing this for many years to come.
You need to be pointblanking enemies with your lock-on shot to kill them fast enough - it deals more damage at close range, and the options lock onto enemies faster when you're close which also increases the damage a lot. It's scary, but without it you really fall behind with the enemy kills especially on the later stages. Being close in the first place also makes it easier to start a chain.
One thing to bare in mind is short clean chains are just as valuable so don't panic and get familiar with enemy placement enough so you can build a clear idea of generally where you will start and finish chains, also think about that gaining 5s with the wide shot solely builds the second multiplier which will be cashed out on big enemies using the lockon, often this is more profitable than always accumulating 5s with the lock on chain so i'd suggest studying some youtube plays and practicing with save states to see how much you can adapt what you're seeing to your current ability. I'll suggest bananamatics replay as he has solid decent scoring routes that don't delve to far into the more nuance ridden confusing strats that superplayers like sps use. Ketsui is like scenario after scenario that you plan what you're going to do for so don't be afraid to do some save state grinding to find what works for you and really program that routine in as it is very easy (i still do now occasionally) forget something small and end up in a panic danger situation that could of been easily avoided.
>What's the best input device for verties?
The best is literally whatever you feel comfortable with, I played with a stick for 4 years after i first got into it and now I use an ascii ps1 pad and have found it perfect for me.
I just got a Saturn and a Rhea. What are the best shmups? Also is there a preferred Saturn stick I should purchase, or is there only one model/brand?
P.S. I am a little shmup baby who wants to be decimated, give me a game that will make me cry.
Thanks for clearing that up. I've been hanging out with people who play Third Strike and Melee too much - they refer to them as fight sticks, but I would agree that's incorrect.
The Hori stick seems to get what I am after, or maybe one of those HS110 ones or whatever it is called.
More importantly getting to play the superior 1.5 version of the game. Mfw all the retards who piss and whinge about the lack of slowdown and input lag on mame get this and are still total shit so find something new to bitch about.
Yeah it's not for you son and let's face it even with your best efforts you were only ever going to occupy the bottom 5% of the scoreboard. Don't be angry though the modern casual gaming world offers a broad horizon for dumb dumbs like yourself who require a more abacus tier challenge.
And if you think ogling graphics is more important than the depths of gameplay in this genre then you shouldn't be here at all and are part of the problem. Sure aesthetics matter but no where near as much as the game itself. So which shmups do you play to a decent level? im curious... any at all?
How's the game itself? In the brief gameplay I saw the bullet patterns looked more like Espgaluda than the vomit gargles of DDP/Ketsui.
Who am I kidding, I'll be buying it anyway, but the visual vibe doesn't have me hyped.
I was going to shill the fuck out of this but I hate to say >>2756130 is right. They are basically selling a broken beta test for $20 and the actual game in the form of 1.5 as dlc for another $20. I still think it's a great game and novice mode is an excellent starting point for beginners, but they kinda just went full evil jew on this dlc scheme.
I'm not angry, just disappointed. I'd recommend waiting until they release Futari unless you really want to support CAVE on Steam or whatever.
You really think the shmup community is there because of how these games look? Dat american gamer mentality. You're just a grown up version of kids who get excited over christmas lights at this stage.
>but the visual vibe doesn't have me hyped.
Here come the plebs..
>How's the game itself?
It's all about 1.5 imo but in regards to the original ummm original mode is basically toaplan style and very easy well for anybody who actually tries which excludes 99% of the western fanbase. Maniac and ultra have some crazy tapping for scoring techniques that i don't like at all but again that probably won't concern 99% who will think getting past stage 2 is an achievement.
>I saw the bullet patterns looked more like Espgaluda than the vomit gargles of DDP/Ketsui.
No they don't and vomit gargles? You aren't playing those games right.
>They are basically selling a broken beta test for $20 and the actual game in the form of 1.5 as dlc for another $20.
Is this confirmed? If so fuck that Cave can suck a fat one I'm busy with ketsui anyway but 1.5 at a non retard price would of been nice.
Who the fuck wants to spend over 50 hours repeating the same 30 minutes if those 30 minutes look and sound like shit? If there's a genre where aesthetics are very important, it's shoot em ups.
Lmfao pleb confirmed. There isn't a single cave game that looks or sounds particularly bad though so it's a moot point and the figures speak for themselves just go look at any shmup scoreboard anywhere and you'l see the ratio of people who try to any kind of semi decent level is 2% tops.
>$40 seems like fair price,
In what reality? Crimson clover is god tier and cost a 1/4 of the price. Honestly cave fans are some of the biggest cucks around Cave treated the west with ignorance and like shit for years then they show up 6 years to late on the very platform everyone was begging for solely because the company is in financial difficulty and tries to pull some crazy price shit? By all means it's your money but holy fuck that is not a "fair price".
I like vomit gargles, Ketsui's aimed shit and suicide bullets certainly fit that label.
From what I saw of Mushihimesama, the zakos fire straight lines of bullets (lasers) and there seemed to be a lot of radials from big enemies like in Espgaluda. Those don't look as nice.
>Maybe that would give me the motivation to play for score.
If you haven't found something you like enough by now given the massive amount of top tier stuff that's emulated then i can't see you developing that desire now. To many people get sucked into "muh new experience" so they buy/download some new shit play it for 3 days and want the next new accumulation rush you gotta get out of that bullshit and stick with something.
>I like vomit gargles, Ketsui's aimed shit and suicide bullets certainly fit that label.
Ok i wasn't seeing the visual analogy as you were so fair enough.
Why are you comparing it to doujin game, retard?
> treated the west with ignorance and like shit for years then they show up 6 years to late on the very platform everyone was begging
I can't decipher this fedora stream of consciousness, sorry.
>crazy price shit
Again, their games and other STGs always had this or more expensive prices. Why it should be cheaper on Steam?
>Why are you comparing it to doujin game, retard?
Really? Because that doujin was of the same quality if not better than most "professionally" developed shmups and it was developed by one of the greatest players in the world.
>I can't decipher
Yeah but you get that a lot don't you?
>Again, their games and other STGs always had this or more expensive prices. Why it should be cheaper on Steam?
Because it's a fucking download and a quick look at the market on this format clearly shows no other shmup cost anywhere near as much even Raiden 4 was half the price you fucking nappy sniffing sperg cunt. I bet you're one of those tragic cunts that owns every cave release 3 times just to show support aren't you? stay cuck you sad sack of shit.
Ikaruga cost the same on Xbox Live, the fact that Steam has shit selection of games and Treasure's and MOSS business models don't oblige other companies to sell their product for peanuts
Doujin games are made of enthusiasm, and don't require to return investments you thick cunt
>Because it's a fucking download
So is MGSV.
>Doujin games are made of enthusiasm, and don't require to return investments you thick cunt
And a product is worth what a consumer is willing to pay for it and as stated a quick look at the market shows this price is unlikely desirable for most people and Caves need for return investments is only currently so high because the company is fucked as previously stated and it's their own fault for not embracing steam earlier when they could of set the standard for pricing before the competitive options showed up, so fuck off back to snorting coke off your reco fuck pillow in your snoopy pants fucking dickhead.
>is only currently so high
Are you pretending to be retarded? That's what their games always cost. It's their right to not giving a fuck about ideology of doing a big favor of support by paying $15 on the start or waiting for sale.
Crimzon Clover had an arcade release on Taito Nesica boards, bro. The Steam release is based on that version.
You're arguing against a community that thinks a game with buttugly pre-rendered CGI graphics is the height of arcade video gaming, m8. It's a lost cause, shmup fans have sacrificed all of their judgement and thinking process for autistic scoring. They're nothing more than soulless machines that exist solely to 1CC slightly above average video games.
>You really think the shmup community is there because of how these games look?
The Japanese community doesn't disregard aesthetics and keeps them on par with the actual gameplay.
Yet more reason why nipps are superior to braindead gaijin.
Another dumb pleb cunt who can't think beyond aesthetics. Your mind is literally shaped by the western gaming media and it's fucking sad. You're the type of moron who thinks the same game running on slightly higher graphical settings with his gtx is instantly a better game.
>The Japanese community doesn't disregard aesthetics and keeps them on par with the actual gameplay
Indeed but no player quits a great game because they don't like a stage theme or how an enemy looks. Just like i didn't stop playing espgaluda even though i dislike the poor tier trance and tranny fairy characters.
>i didn't stop playing espgaluda even though i dislike the poor tier trance and tranny fairy characters
Sure, but you probably prefered other games over it with better aesthetics, although the gameplay was not much better.
>Sure, but you probably prefered other games over it with better aesthetics, although the gameplay was not much better.
Well espgaluda has pretty original gameplay that although not my favorite is great in it's own right. I still stuck with espgaluda until i got a clear with a decent score as it's still a great game behind the things i don't like (aesthetically it is my least fav cave ever) and that's the most important thing... the core. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to communicate this to most people because they simply aren't prepared to invest effort and refused to be convinced by those of us that do of how fun it actually is when you start actually playing to get better, you literally see so much more of a game.
I agree with you that gameplay is definitely the most important, but I find aesthetics also very important.
The awesome soundtracks and cool art styles are one of the main things which draw me to this genre. They are much better imo, than having to listen to rap music or looking at faggy muscle packed heroes and slutty whores in skimpy clothes like in fighting games for example.
kek at the image
But that's a hori shooter, no wonder it looks that good. Horis are just better suited for displaying good presentation values and no amount of memeing from your part is gonna change that.
Noone cares. Deltazeal is a much better game and it is already on Steam.
Reason why danmaku is not so great: Good gameplay has a good mix out of precisely shooting enemies and precisely dodging things, but the precision in danmaku is all just about dodging bullets, which means you will most of the time just spend looking at your ship to dodge better, while the rest of the screen is just filled with bullets anyway.
It's just common sense. Also being able to observe the stage is much more interesting. But when the whole screen is just full of bullets, then there isn't much space to observe the stages. You have your eyes at your ship the whole time and move slowly milimetre for milimetre, while the rest of the screen is just full of bullets.
Even when you don't use spread types, your eyes will still be mainly on your ship mostly. You just move more often from left to right then (in verties). Because even the straight shots are very powerful in these games, to the point where you hardly have to aim.
The hell are you talking about?
Mushihimesama specifically has a lot of enemies that cancel bullets when killed that need to be shot down correctly. Just about every CAVE game is centered around shooting enemies and maneuvering around them more than dodging their bullets.
The only bullet hell games I can think of that have less emphasis on shooting are Touhous, which have grazing mechanics instead. But even many of those involve quite a bit of shooting, just not on the bosses.
Sure, but it doesn't nearly take as much precision to do this, than the aiming precision you need in games like Gradius for example, since your shot is much thinner there and the core of the enemies are harder to hit.
I don't hate the genre, I just don't prefer it. The only exception would be games like Ikaruga or Radiant Silvergun. This is danmaku done right (if you can still call this danmaku actually).
Neat gameplay vid of an unreleased arcade STG based on N64 hardware.
The N64 didn't have much STG's now that you look back at it. There's Vanishing Earth, and that's it I think?
>your eyes will still be mainly on your ship mostly
No they won't. The ship is the last place you want to be looking at. And if you can get away with just moving horizontally and playing passively, you really need to play some actually difficult bullet hell games.
>Sure, but it doesn't nearly take as much precision to do this, than the aiming precision you need in games like Gradius for example, since your shot is much thinner there and the core of the enemies are harder to hit.
You'll absolutely love playing for score then. You won't be able to spam randomly when you try going for a high-score.
That's the joke. People here are fuckheads that only want to play the game because it's not currently available. They don't care about the actual gameplay and will likely not even be able to get a basic 1cc.
>You won't be able to spam randomly when you try going for a high-score.
There is no other way than to randomly spam in games like Crimzon Clover. Just look at the size of your shot... It almost covers the whole screen in break mode.
Not all danmaku are like this though. Mainly only cave style games have this. Games like Ikaruga or Battle garegga are awesome, but Cave is rather meh imo.
Look, I probably made this up in my fuzzy memory, so don't bother thinking too hard, but is there an horizontal shmup for either Genesis or SNES where most of the stages are giant motherships?
I could be confusing it with memories from Gleylancer or Phalanx's mothership stages.
What do you mean by "high-score"? Being in the top five rankings?
I 1cced Crimzon Clover on normal. It's cool, but I prefer other games more.
Currently I'm playing a Ikaruga, which takes a shitton more precision than this and is much much better game.
Have you tried scoring Dodonpachi? And by high-score I mean the highest possible score you can get as an individual. The kind of score that makes you go: "This is the very best I could possibly do'
>Have you tried scoring Dodonpachi?
No, I am not that much interested in cave games, that's why I didn't play them much yet. I don't have to spend hundrets of hours playing to get to know a game though.
>The kind of score that makes you go: "This is the very best I could possibly do'
This doesn't exist for me. Good players never stop getting better. There is always room for improvement, no matter how good you are, if not, then the game you play is too simple and easy.
>No, I am not that much interested in cave games, that's why I didn't play them much yet.
If you're not interested, how would you know before you try them out seriously?
>This doesn't exist for me. Good players never stop getting better. There is always room for improvement, no matter how good you are, if not, then the game you play is too simple and easy.
Bullshit, it's the exact opposite. If you're a skilled player, you know exactly where your limits lie. It sounds like you haven't failed enough yet, or you would know this.
>Currently I'm playing a Ikaruga, which takes a shitton more precision than this and is much much better game.
Bullshit, at a high level all these games require a high level of precision in one way or another and for crimzon that is in timing and enemy placements to attain max breaks achievable. Ikaruga just spells it out a bit more for you and is gash to boot.
What's your fav non-japanese shmup?
Extra enemies everywhere
Notches on boss lifebars to indicate ends of phases
You can't speed kill the TLB's 2nd form anymore
Original Mode now has a shitty scoring system where you sit at the top of the screen and point blank for the entire game
The stage 5 boss has completely different patterns in Original Mode
The addition of max power mode, which lets you start the game with full power and autobomb, but you only get one bomb per life and enemies are more aggressive
Original-max has a rank system based on your counter, similar to futari original. At over 10000 bullets get faster and glow green, over 50000 they get even faster and glow red
Thoughts on this game?
Best weapon? Best formation?
Seems that Fire and Water are the most useful since they neutralize enemy bullets.
There's a special field surrounding you. Each time you dodge a bullet at hair lengths of distance, as long as the bullet enters the field, it builds you a meter. When you build up the meter you get a single second of invulnerability. Dodging multiple bullets at hair lengths of distance makes you invincible as long as you don't fuck up and skip a dodge or hit a bullet while in your vulnerable state.
Korea has really out-autism'd Japan here.
You watch memexac's pro review of Ikaruga then go onto 4chan and say stupid shit about a game you've never played seriously while deflecting criticism of CAVE games with 'it gets good 1000 hours in'.
The funny thing pretty much all the best ikaruga players state how unfun it is at a high level which unsurprisingly is beyond what you ign opinion mirroring twats have ever actually done in the game. Ikaruga is fucking shit when you actually play it properly so go away.
I see you autists are still arguing over inane shit. keep it up.
>I disagree though, if you kill big enemies in mushihime they cancel out all the bullets.
Are you fucking stupid ir something? That's because how the GPS works on Ultra/God and Maniac Mode, you cancel bullets to get higher score not to just clear the screen. Fucking shills need to play before coming here to talk shit.
>Elitists shit up another thread.
Then you sad fucks wonder why the community is drying up.
I don't think elitism has anything to do with shmup communities dying. They're just not what players like these days, and haven't caught on with the retro hipster audience where other genres have found extends.
Elitism is exactly why the community is ded, just not in the way you think. It's not the bantz, it's the mindset that causes developers to make every shmup conform to arcade conventions even though it's 2015 and figuratively nobody wants to play a game with autoscroll, limited lives and point scoring. Smart money would be to bring that quality they've been refining for 20 years to a new idea like a pixeljunk shooter-esque game but they're Japanese so of course getting slightly experimental means it has to go on mobile shit.
Dodonpachi is fun. Although I'd rather be playing DOJ that game is way above me.
I felt like it was the opposite, way more trashtalking in the FGC, calling out scrubs and that kinda stuff too. I feel like there are people playing shooters that would legit tear up if they saw some kids wanting to get into the genre.
>nobody wants to play a game with autoscroll, limited lives and point scoring
Why are you even here if you don't like these things? Go back to your faggy fighting games if you think the genre is so shitty.
The reason why STGs are very niche is simply because people have shit taste and are way too casual for them.
Finally fucking learning the cartridges, Jesus Christ.
I just hope Mushi sells ok so we can get some more ports.
I am dreaming that they would release a new port of Ibara since the PS2 port is not very good. Not likely, but man can hope. I just love that game.
I know the feeling. I personally hate sort of fanservice-characters
( despite wrapping my lips around Ibara's mighty shaft earlier. That's why I have been feeling like pushed away from DFK and SDOJ. I don't understand the fascination with those sort of characters.
Holy shit, that chain drop doe. Just kidding those cartridges are really fucking brutal, stage 2-4 is brutal in general, I can't even reach it with survival strats, nice webm keep it up.
> DFK and SDOJ.
There's no fanservice whatsoever in those games outside of bikini wallpapers and robot girls transforming into mechas.
Saidaioujou has an Xbox 360 mode that is super easy and the full of cringeworth pandering, but you shouldn't be playing that unless you understand Japanese anyway.
This sprite right here is about as pandering as it gets. I mean, really, just overlook it as goofy Japanese stuff, it's no more ridiculous than giant robot killer bees.
xbox 360 mode is pretty fun though, it's got a neat sort of manual rank control system that lets you balance between playing safe and high score by using your shot types as gas and brake pedals.
Also the 360 mode has multiple difficulties. The default is more or less novice, but it also includes arcade and expert which are as tough as the rest of the modes in the game.
Source: I own SDOJ (and think that if it didn't have brutal input lag on the port, it would be regarded as one of the better Cave titles).
>The reason why STGs are very niche is simply because people have shit taste and are way too casual for them.
Although true the community is still mostly utter shit, actually most of the decent players are cool but there's this under current of your typical fat shit at everything else nerd cunt that needs some "hardcore" hobby to obsess over and spew opinions about with an aire of arrogance to detract from the fact they are shit at everything else in life.
>being this offended when someone is better at video games than zir.
Apparently you can't read because i said the good players are actually the most helpful (mostly). It's your middle tiers and collector types that suck and also your sad man baby that gets shmup tattoos and shit, it's fucking embarrassing. All the people that are annoying as shit generally have been below my skill level not that i give a shit about it because i have other interests that get far more attention.
Like browsing forums without exercising the most basic necessity of reading? That's quite the niche you found yourself sir. Have a game related tattoo is it friend? Please tell us more about your insecurity and identity issues.
Why do you even care about the community of a single player genre? Can't you play games otherwise if you can't circle jerk about them anymore?
I think every community is mostly full of retards. Either they are dumb or arrogant. It's everywhere like this. I think shmups are a very misanthropic genre anyway, so it's no wonder that you will find many unfriendly people there.
It was more an observation than anything and yeah i still play and love the genre. A nice community of reasonable human beings would be a bonus though but alas we are stuck with shmups farm and it's autistic cattle.
Well, at least for me that's the case. It's also one of the reasons why I prefer controlling space ships instead characters. Just like I prefer sci-fi shooters over WW2 shooters. I feel more connected to a space ship than to a humanoid character or realistic vehicle.
I think I would enjoy euroshmups a lot more if they were easier to emulate.
But good job, anyway. Post more shmup webms.
This happens because the genuinely good players have played a bunch of different games and have an appreciation for various types of shmups. So they can give useful advice and also don't feel insecure about what they've played so they don't mind mentioning it.
However they're far less common than the ones who have only put the time into getting good at one or two. Those people are often the assholes. The game they put time into must be the best one out there or else they wasted their time, so a lot of effort goes into talking up the one they like and shitting on anything else.
In any given group of people you'll get some who have decided to master different games and then you get into the horiz vs verts, Ikaruga is garbage/perfect and all that crap.
Various genres have this problem, fighters and roguelikes suffer from it pretty badly as well.
My general recording settings are not that great, plus I think my computer's finally starting to die. Despite it, game runs smoothly during recording, though.
Which is bad since I kinda don't have money to replace it.
Yeah, usually people count one loop clear as 1cc, although for two-looped games, people usually consider 2-ALLing being the significant clear.
On infinitely looping shmups no one cares about later loops unless there is TLB or something.
>Max hit 967
What the fuck? Why is your chain so low? That's what I get approximately on 1-1. Still you got a really decent/good score. How much did you get on the first loop?
I tend to use 2p when playing out of habit. There's bug that messes up with the max chain count for that side.
That is my older score though, can't remember specifics. It was mostly survival-orientated run ( which got me to Hibachi )
I think I could beat it if I did serious run since I have learned some chains in second loop ( safe 2-1 whole chain, half-way of 2-5 chain etc. )
Getting a half-decent run is difficult though for me.
For being a survival run, I must say that is a pretty amazing score. Also, I didn't know about the 2p side glitch since I don't really play on 2p side on most of my games. Is it any better or the rank keeps the same?
Honestly i think it's the most overated game in the genre I just find them boring as shit in every way and so many games have done that formula so much better.... take fire shark/samesamesame for example.
Raiden used to be THE quintessential game for STG, much like how Joy Division is the quintessential band for post-punk. I'm saying "used" because Ikaruga and Touhou have since stolen that title.
Obv all these games and bands are overrated to anyone who's deep into the genre.
>tfw you go from barely making it to the stage 2 boss on one credit last night to making it to stage five on one life tonight in Strikers 1945
Apidya. It's basically a bug-themed Gradius.
Has there ever been an STG where the ship moves at a Gain Ground-level speed (read: really really slow), has a weak and non-automatic attack, and is based heavily based around level memorization?
They ruined it by tacking on that badly drawn story. I wanted to be a bee going on bee-based adventures in the garden of pissed off insects, not some retard anime guy trying to find some shit for his sick wife. They tried waaay to hard to Japanese the game up when they already had a great game. Still, it's mere cosmetics ontop of a fine game. Also dat godly Chris Huelsbeck soundtrack.
Because CAVE carved out a huge niche among shmup fans based around elaborate scoring mechanics and technical play. As the STG market started to shrink, more traditional games got squeezed out, and bullet hell titles modeled on CAVE-style gameplay systems became the only part of the subgenre with regular releases.
If you happen to really love Psikyo style games, or cinematic horis like Einhander or R-Type, you are SOL because no one other than a few tiny developers are making them anymore.
For a shitty analogy, compare it to something like growing up playing arena style shooters such as UT or Q3, but your only options today are COD and games that play exactly like COD.
(Disclaimer: I really love CAVE games tho. Even SDOJ.)
Why am I here? Why are you here bro you wouldn't play a shmup without getting to write your initials next to a number so just skip the middle man and go to the initial writing general.
>CAVE games all play the same.
Only extremely low level players would ever think this to be true. How in the fuck can you suggest dangun plays anything like progear or guwange like mushi futari? it's beyond stupid.
>Why do people here have such a hate-boner for CAVE?
It's just the shit players and old cunts who hate the fact that cave games stomp their shit mean whilst those of us that really love and actually play these games manage to appreciate every style within the genre old and new.
R-Type stomps my shit but I love it because it's not the same tired concept of raining down spirals of bullets on you in place of proper level design. It's not so much that CAVE or bullet hell games are bad, but such games are too overabundant nowadays, making shmups seem more stagnant than ever.
I got 1ALL on ketsui, yay. I haven't played this for a while.
For Xbox 360, it's because Sony initially told arcade ports to fuck right off. It wasn't until much later when Sony changed their mind, and got Raiden IV Overkill and other STG (barely any). I'd like to think Raiden V is on Xbox One because of how well Xbox 360 did with STG.
But those bullets are a part of proper level design. You think they just randomly throw all those bullets on screen hoping to god that it will work instead of carefully planning on the placement of them in order to ensure that it is in fact possible to make it through alive without dying? There's also shit like scoring systems which heavily play into things like enemy and item placements, you may not be dealing with as many environmental hazards as games like R-Type but to claim that there's no proper level design is fucking insane.
>You think they just randomly throw all those bullets on screen hoping to god that it will work instead of carefully planning on the placement of them in order to ensure that it is in fact possible to make it through alive without dying?
I know for a fact they do which is why smartbombs are so prevalent in bullet hell. You hate it when it's a euroshmup and it's a healthbar letting you live through impossible bullet barf but it's OK when CAVE does it!
let's be honest nobody normal prefers any of this autismal crap. if you're playing shmups -oh I'm sorry STGs- if you're playing STDs it's a clear sign you must have been severely abused as a kid
Good work man, i got to the 2-3 boss last night (omote) that guy is a colossal douche for the tiger. Always force yourself in the first loop to use no bombs it'l make you learn the game much better and if you are going long term will become the norm plus essential for accessing ura aswell as training you to make omote regularly.
>Why don't you have a youtube channel with all your 1ccs and 2-ALLs yet?
My pc is to ass to record and render good enough, i have a folder of inps though. That said i'd never upload 1ccs just for the sake of it unless they're decent scoring runs.
It doesn't have to be the best clear. I always enjoy watching decent clears from the games I like. It's interesting to see other peoples playstyles.
I think making own vids also could encourage you to play better and more often.
Anybody with any real interest in these games watches runs. Good luck developing strategies and improving without them.
>What?! Do you never watch playthroughs from other people? I do this all the time with shmups.
I do to espeically runs like hfds daioujou wr, sps live performance of ketsui and Kamuis garegga runs.
You also can watch replays without using them as guides.
I constantly watch replays but don't really use them as guides. I just watch them for fun and then mostly also forget about them again.
Mushihimesama will be $20.
Ver1.5 will be $5.
The OST will be $5.
There will be a launch week discount of 25% on both the base game and Ver1.5; in addition, the OST will be free with the base game during that period.
(That's $18.75, for those of you too lazy to do the math)
>might as well not play at all, just watch
>it's like playing a puzzle game with the solution on a guide
This is exactly the opinion you expect from someone who just doesn't have a clue or doesn't have enough play experience. You can watch any top player until you are blue in the face now go and try mimicing what you see and you'l find you can't do shit as the execution and play time experience of those guys is so high, runs give you ideas and then you can start adapting parts of those strategies into your own more manageable versions, even at the top level everyone does things a little bit differently. You're forgetting about the skill it takes to play these games and it's like saying watching someone else beat larsa in futari ultra iis the same as beating her yourself or even further telling an aspiring gymnast they might aswell just watch as what they're doing has already been done. Personal achievement is the other aspect you are missing out on massively, it feels great to get that personal best run no matter how that fares against others as you are testing yourself and what you can do but hey if you wanna spend your life always being a spectator then go for it.
Guy with a YT channel here, I've actually thought about starting up a channel for other people. I have the equipment and the time to make videos so why not do it for other people? Anyone interested?
Though it goes without saying that I won't be uploading every little thing you do. Preferably just cool stuff like 2-ALLs, lunatic 1ccs and high-scoring runs.
In the case of Ketsui I would say have a 100m score at minimum and it has to at least be a 1-ALL. In most cases having a certain score and 1cc is appreciated.
Exceptions can still be made if the run is really good, like getting 150m+ while game-overing on 1-5, I think that'd still be worth uploading.
You guys are too slow, I already created an account:
I like this one but it's too late already!
Anyways, send me shit: email@example.com
You can either upload an .inp or .rpy to an online whatever or you can send me the file as an attachment.
Game name, rom name, MAME version
What the YT description should be, what the tags should be and other cool stuff like that.
Man, still haven't found a shmup more fun than Batrider. I miss Raizing.
Also, OP of the past STGenerals here, haven't been using 4chan much anymore, my apologies.
I feel like danmakus have become some form of depressing self-satire of the genre to the point that they are simply not very fun anymore. I think that a "good" well designed challenge must be based on the basic premise of "any normal person should be able to complete this task without previously knowing what is expected of him beforehand". And danmaku shmups seem to have thrown the essentials away in the garbage with what is basically a shallow exercise in route memorization.
The very concept of danmaku just don't interest me. I think that the premise of a shooting game as simply "a lot of crap flying at you at once" isn't a very good concept at all. I hate this design. And since most shooters nowadays follow this style of fake difficulty, I'd much rather be playing the ones from the 4th gen and earlier.
Memorization is really nothing special for this genre.
I for one like memorizers the most. At least if they are done well (like Irem games). I think a game shouldn't be beatable by anyone without having to study it first, otherwise the challenge becomes too boring.
I don't know, I haven't played it much but from my little experience I feel the ship control is so messed up, I don't understand why diagonal moves al faster than vertical and horizontal, it's so dumb. How can people play this for real?
Not a single person has complained about them being too hard. Many bullet hullets are definitely homogeneous and uninspired though, with some waifu pilots thrown in to reel in some suckers.
>waifu-pandering slowfest without level design
millennials are funny
>"any normal person should be able to complete this task without previously knowing what is expected of him beforehand"
So you hate arcade games, then? Danmaku games aren't even much more difficult or memorization-heavy than regular shooters, anyway. It's pretty easy to follow the enemy attacks as they come, unlike something like Truxton where you'll constantly be caught off guard by fast small bullets.
Oh look it's this dumb cunt nonsense opinion again. I love it when shit players come up with every bullshit reason ever for not being into games they can't even play to begin with. Every shmup ever is a memorizer you fucking dipshit. I play shmups from every style and gen however you just stick to what you're safe with and call everything else shit but no friend it's you who is shit. Any task that can be completed by a normal person on their first person is by definition absent of skill and pandering to the low undeveloped skill level of a normal person which gives a false sense of achievement so stick that up your fake difficulty spewing arsehole you basic cunt.
>Does it have 1 pixel hitboxes? Then it's danmacrap.
The fact you don't even know garegga shows you have no clue about this genre,
>Battle Garegga is shit.
>Fucking metagame elements are terrible. At least the art and the music are fantastic, but that's about it.
So basically you're total shit at garegga and can't understand the strategic depth because simpleton so have to blame the game to protect your ego. I'm sorry that you fail at these games.
I just 1cc'd Harmful Park. Not a tremendous achievement, it's a pretty easy game, but it was really fun. Probably one of the best horizontal games.
>So you hate arcade games, then?
>implying arcade games can't be well-designed
OP is a fag for not putting resources in the OP.
BTW shmup players are just like this. We philosophize and argue about shmups because we all love shmups, don't let it put you off from them.
>I don't understand why diagonal moves al faster than vertical and horizontal
It's because YGW doesn't know algebra.
I disagree that it a meme, enemies and how they approach you in the level is not apart of the level itself. Bullet curtains may force you to move but so does any bullet heading your way.
Enemies spawning in certain spots are very much part of the level design and at the point they enter they become an obstacle to think about as much as the bullets they shoot, destructible as they may be it's still part of the level.
Yeah, well, that's exactly what it is. In many games, enemy spawns are dependent on player actions, either by the timing at which you kill enemies and bosses, your positioning, the rank, or other factors. Enemies calling in sick in certain circumstances is very much a part of level design, and changes the bullet patterns fired at the player.
But all of those things happen on the same level. If an enemy can change position and you still call it the same level then the enemies aren't the level. The level is the scrolling background and position in the enumerable sequence of levels the game has you go through i.e. 'level 2'.
>Why do you move faster if you hold down left/right+forward in DOOM? How can anyone play DOOM for real with controls like that?
It's called adapting to the game. BG has hardcoded input lag as well but you learn to live with it instead of crying like a child because the game is good.
>Every shmup ever is a memorizer you fucking dipshit
That's not true. Games like R-Type get called "memorizer" not because you need to memorize stuff in order to play on a high level (which is the case for almost every STG), but because you are forced to memorize stuff in order to even play it in the first place.
I think that's also one of the reasons why bullet hell got so popular. Because you also can play these games without much skills and without having to memorize stuff.
Did you get triggered? Why do you feel it necessary to validate what you like by forcing a sort of mental gymnastics calling enemy and encounter design the level design?
> a sort of mental gymnastics calling enemy and encounter design the level design?
>goombas and other shit in SMB were placed by 'encounter designer' after levels were done by level designer
It's not a mental gymnastics for anyone who isn't a fucking retarded vegetable.
Backgrounds aren't "the level" either. In a lot of games the developers most likely change the background of the same level many times during development, but they still refer to it as being the same level because it is the same mechanically. Level design encompasses everything from the art design to enemy behaviour in shmups.
The backgrounds have cool little events happening in them that make the map layout more enjoyable. Notice the tanks moving along the cliffs at the beginning of dodonpachi, or in pic related, the turrets suddenly coming out of the collapsed building in stage 4, daioujou had the third cloud level with the floating satellite and saucer things and long swarms of assaulting enemies, then in the next stage you're in the middle of a laser cannon core, you enter the orange river in Ketsui right before the large ship that gives you an extend, etc.
Backgrounds go a long way in interacting with enemies and helping you memorize the object layouts and you might not even notice.