Let's discuss them.
Who killed Jonbenet Ramsey? I really don't know exactly what happened but I guarantee that both the mom and dad were involved...one of them did it and they all decided to cover it up.
Another crazy one is the Girl Scout Murders in 1977. Someone snuck into a scout camp and killed three girls but didn't just do it in the tent, the took the bodies some distance through the camp and left them near a trail and yet weren't caught. Really sick stuff. There are quite a few sites/forums trying to solve this one and with people who were at the camp when it happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_girl_scout_murders
What do you mean "whole family?" Even the brother? That seems unlikely.
It seems very obvious that BOTH parents were involved but the question is how. Who actually did it and why? I have a feeling that one parent covered for the other.
This one has been speculated on quite a bit, but no one has any evidence to defeat what might have happened. Most claim avalanche, but that doesn't account for the tent being ripped open from inside and the radiation.
It was most likely an accident that they all worked together to clean up. It's possible that the brother was uninvolved, but it's unlikely that he wouldn't know about the cover story.
You mean like falling off am anything higher than two feet?
Cracked skulls are pretty easy to come by, especially when you're a small child. Seems like the most logical answer; accidental death, panic, cover up.
Wasn't she raped too though? I may be getting my stories mixed up, but I could have sworn that was a part of it. If that's the case, it's even more fucked up, especially if the parents were involved.
Falling? Falling off what? She had blunt force trauma to her skull and then was choked with a garrotte device...
Yes it appears that she was raped with a wooden device/paintbrush.
Multiple theories on that. aka mom or dad abusing her, goes too far and she's nearly dead, the abuser panics and grabs the spouse and they stage a murder.
People are terrified of jail. You should check into other cases where accidents were covered up by scared people.
Eh, she'd be pretty, but I doubt she'd be hotter than that chick who plays Margery Tyrelm
I'm going to take a bit to research this case again with my education; I haven't looked at this since I graduated (because I don't care about some poor dead girl enough to do so).
Appears as if she was raped but no one in the family could bring themselves to rape a dead 6 year old?
And please, while I'm researching the case, look into what all causes skull fractures. You may be surprised how easily a spanking gone terribly wrong can lead to a dead kid.
Been poking around, and it looks like total parents fucking up, then trying to cover for it.
Parents' statements constantly contradictory statements to physical evidence found, a random letter written overly with overly familiar language, the rape with a random object from the house (rather than with peen) implies emotional connection, the clumsy garote not being the kind of thing even NEEDED to subdue a six year old girl.
All of the evidence points to my theory being at least plausible.
Just a quick question. It's brought up at one point that they thought the mother may have been induced into a rage and harmed the girl. Is there any evidence or even rumors of the mother (or father for that matter) being volatile or prone to outbursts of anger?
I'm not sure it's been a while since I read up on it but yeah I think there were signs of abuse on her (not just sexual, but anger type stuff). The question is, was is the mother or father? IIRC the mother was very high strung and type A. On the other hand sexual abuse is pretty much a male thing. Could it have been both of them? It's really hard to say. It's unbelievable that no one has been arrested for it.
No I totally agree that a spanking gone wrong could lead to it, likely from bedwetting (she wets bed again he/she/they force her into the basement, they get too rough and she dies and they panic) but this is all just speculation.
This case really bothers me, she would be the same age as me right now, and she would probably be so beautiful and talented.
It seems to me like the judge was paid off not to convict them, because of those recently released documents.
With that in mind, the mother could have snapped, accidentally gone too far, and then the father and her went about the cleanup all night.
Maybe it had to do with the pineapple she was eating that the parents then lied about in their reports.
I wouldn't argue against the sexual abuse being a male thing but a high strung type A is also the sort of person I'd easily imagine doing such an act. This is of course purely speculation but from experience with people I'd place in a type A category, I could see them doing it not (entirely) out of some sick sadism but because it would make it a lot easier to deflect the crime to the other gender. Of course, I don't actually know anything about the mother or her relationship with her husband (who would naturally be the primary suspect after the sexual violation) so take this all to be the typical ramblings of the uninformed.
You should read up on the case and all the interviews/interrogations and evidence, etc etc
I was into it years ago and am not super sharp now but if you wanna dive into something, this is a good option. Really strange case. I really hope the parents are brought to justice. I am convinced that the parents are both involved. I think the brother possibly is, and the neighbor friends somewhat less possibly.
>Alabama Teen Missing
>Friend and family days he took off to Florida.
>Body found in frozen ditch about a week later.
>Head and limbs missing.
>At first is thought to be wild animals, but forensics show signs of clean cutting.
>Girl comes forward and confesses.
>Confession inconsistent with evidence.
>Let her go.
>Find her body in ditch a week later with head missing.
>Search houses and find evidence of cleaning supplies.
>No suspects turn up.
>Male victim's dad claims to have evidence.
>Refuses to share evidence because, "I don't want anyone getting hurt."
Let me check my bookmarks and get back to you. It's been a while. I just remember finding some REALLY good forums where people discuss it all and have stickies and all that.
I don't remember the name but just google Jonbenet forums essentially.
This happened in Union County NJ back in the 70's. All of the files were supposedly damaged in a flood at PD headquarters. Its got a lot of alleged Satan worship attributed to it but wasn't everything back then caused by the satanists. Still, its an interesting case.
Guys, please just hear me out. I feel like I might be onto something here.
>Mother was highly strung
>Jonbenet was a beauty queen, so was the mother. But Jonbenet, at her young age, was more successful
>Mother overcome by jealousy and desire for attention
>Invites third party into the home (probably a lover) to kill her daughter
>Same "third party" writes the ransom note to scare the father
>Mother telephoned police, family and friends after finding ransom note despite the fact that the note specifically said not to do so, suspicious as fuck. Therefore she knew and probably did it for attention and to fuck with the father further.
>Either the mother (backed up by the idea of "naive" sexual exploration, not outright rape) or the third party molested Jonbenet
>Mother and third party shortly separated and never contacted each other again
Dad is innocent.
Something that would basically cement my hypothesis would be a look at Jonbenet's medical records. Was she often sick or injured? Did her mother often take her to the hospital?
JonBenét is such a weird, ugly name, like the product of a naïve mind.
also the wikipedia page says that the mother's handwriting was a match to the handwriting on the ransom note and experts concluded that it was probably written by her... how is that not proof enough that she was involved?
Iowafag here, this one's a pretty big cold case from my neck of the woods. Though it's a missing person's case, there's no doubt in my mind she may have been murdered. Case has been on America's Most Wanted, Unsolved Mysteries, and Nancy Grace has a spot about her on the annual anniversary of her disappearance.
>She doesn't come into work at the TV station, gets called
>Picks up the phone, says she overslept
>Two hours go by, doesn't show up
>Has someone fill in
>End of the day station staff call police
>Still has not been found dead or alive.
I do have somewhat of a second-degree connection to what she was dealing with and my own theory of what happened. Anyone interested?
Keep forgetting /x/ is a slow ass board... I'll bite.
>Be early 90s
>Dad's a part time musician, still is today
>He and his band play a bar gig
>Meets Jodi after a set
>Told me to his recollection she was pretty outgoing
>The kind of girl not afraid to go out and have fun
>Part ways, walks back to a booth in the back of the Mason City bar he was playing at
>To my dad's memory, the booth was filled with a bunch of "walking skeletons"
Every once in a while my dad's band mates will recall the same thing at a few of their practice sessions. Now here's my personal theory considering the whole "walking skeletons" thing.
>North Iowa has always had a huge meth problem
>Time of disappearance was within two years of one of the biggest meth related murders in the history of the state: the Dustin Lee Honken murders
>Considering the crowd she was with, I'm sure she got caught up in it
>Dustin Lee Honken was originally arrested and tried for the murders in 1993, let go for insufficient evidence
>She disappears in 1995, roughly three months after Honken's release and then residence in Mason City
My guess is that she found out too much and wanted to keep it out of the picture (career/image wise). The time proximity scarily match up and considering the crowd she was with at the time I'm very sure the prior murders and Jodi's disappearance/murder are related. More details on the murder are below. Get ready for some feels.
>Cracked skulls are pretty easy to come by, especially when you're a small child
Yeah if someone hits you with a wrench maybe.
A kid her size could not build up the momentum required to create the force to crack her own skull in the space she was in.
good luck, can't say I'm confident about your research abilities when you've already talked out your ass about how you think a 2 foot fall would crack a child's skull. You clearly have done no research on that front, because it's a ridiculous statement and completely wrong
The delayed police action and improper preservation of the crime scene leaves a whole lot of possibilities.
Personally, I think the Ramsey's were involved real seedy shit. Ex-beauty queen mom and high-up military father; like I haven't heard that before.
Come on there is no way the brother did it. He wasn't even a teenager yet.
>Ex-beauty queen mom and high-up military father; like I haven't heard that before.
Where have you heard that before?
>Come on there is no way the brother did it. He wasn't even a teenager yet.
It's not impossible or kids to kill each other. Maye he was fucked up, killed her and the parents covered it up with him. We can't really speculate on this because I think they kept him really safe and protected from a lot of investigation, which makes sense no matter what.
The only thing that wouldn't fit is if she had been raped or molested, he may have been too young for that admittedly.
Also the ransom note asked for money in the exact same amount the father got as a bonus, that seems like a strange coincidence and one too obvious for them to have included in the note (unless it was the brother and he just thought of some big number? I don't know). That is a rather strange detail to me.
I appreciate the discussion. Two points:
- There was evidence that she was violated with a paintbrush handle. A broken paintbrush handle was also used to twist the garrote around her neck.
- I agree re: the dollar figure. Nancy couldn't have been so stupid as to put that in there, could she? Unless she was just in a panicked/shocked state and didn't even think about it. But if the letter was faked by a third party, how could they even have that knowledge of the dollar amount?
I still think Nancy wrote the note. I am 100% convinced that she was involved, and I'm about 85% sure of the dad, and 10% of the brother. I think it's possible that the brother KNOWS his parents did it because I'm sure he would have heard all the commotion that night and then put 2 and 2 together after the body was found, but he's probably in denial/doesn't want to turn his own parents in to the police.
The whole case is just a really weird dynamic.
The ransom amount being the same as the father's bonus makes me think it wasn't the family, how stupid would it be to put down that exact amount? It's so suspicious as to not make sense anymore. If I had to write a ransom note off the top of my head I'd say a million or something, I'm sure they could have paid that. That detail is the strangest one of all.
If the letter was faked it could have been faked by someone close enough to them to know the bonus amount, that's easy enough. Even rich people brag about money so they may not have been quiet about it. It may also explain the perp getting in and out with no issue if they knew the house and JonBenet not making a noise in a struggle.
Also I think it was a big enough house that the brother could have slept through them murdering her in a downstairs area without knowing.
Well someone took her from her bedroom. You don't think she would scream if someone came into her room at night and grabbed her?
It would have to be someone that she REALLY knew and trusted.
But yeah the exact bonus amount is just so so stupid if the mom actually wrote it (which handwriting suggests via a handwriting match...). I think she was just dumb.
I thought she had gone downstairs to eat something and was then taken from the kitchen and the house was so big nobody heard her get "kidnapped."
Plus apparently DNA exonerated the parents.
What DNA? I don't remember that being a big part of it.
Yeah she was in the kitchen eating pineapple or something but I don't think little girls usually just wander downstairs in the middle of the night to make themselves a fruit snack. I think someone leered her there for a snack and then took her down to the basement.
Per this source
Both the mom's and brother's prints were on the bowl. But could that be explained from normal usage? I mean, my fingerprints will be all over bowls in my house.
Apparently JBR was telling people in the days before the murder that she was going to "get a special visit from Santa" (the murder occurred Xmas night).
Did the killer tell her this in advance so that she wouldn't freak out when someone entered her room?
Motherfucking Elisa Lam
That's why this situation is so hard to prove anything with. Yeah, her family's prints would be everywhere, it was their house. We don't know.
However the DNA seems to point to someone outside their family and the ransom amount on the note implies someone who knew the family enough to know his bonus. I think that's the best bet, especially as it would explain why she was out of bed (if that was unusual behavior for her, it's not for a lot of kids) and didn't make any noise as she was led somewhere.
Could we all just stop riding JonBenet's monster cock for a bit? Shit. This dead horse (no pun intended) has been beaten to nothing. Here's a couple recents out of my ballpark:
Jon Lacina disappearance/murder (inb4 JIDF huffpost):
Tong Shao disappearance/murder:
They may have caught one, but I always thought this case was pretty fucked up.
>tfw your home city is renown for some intense murders like snowtown and this
Here's an odd case:
Back in 1979, four teens working at Burger Chef in Speedway, Indiana, were kidnapped and dragged into a nearby forest where they were killed by execution. One victim was unfortunate to hit a tree trunk when he tried to run away, and he was bludgeoned by the murderers. Police still have no idea who the identity of the perpetrators were.
Just the lack of forensics let people get away with that kind of stuff. There are just as many serial killers today if not more, and that says nothing about all the rampages like Elliot and the like.
This is probably the most convincing story, lover or neighbor, someone close enough to the mother that they could be trusted. The ransom note might as well be a confession but the only way this case will be solved is if mr. dna confesses since the mom is already dead
from the ransom letter
> We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction.
you mean terrorists kidnapped your daughter? your husband ran a computer company not an arms manufacturer
>Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial.
>Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded.
so the first thing you do is call the cops. oh and then she's already dead in the basement. and then you have the whole ransom being the exact amount of the husbands bonus.
yea its crazy how even as late as the 90's you could get away with almost any kind of sick crime as long as you knew how to clean up after.
I visited the house last week. Pic related.
I'm from CT, but have been so obsessed with the case that I had to visit at some point.
I can honestly say that obviously, the parents didn't have any direct or (probably) indirect involvement with their daughter's death.
Unfortunately, instead of narrowing the field it only leaves a bigger mystery, the most I can say is that, I don't think the letter was not legitimate and it wasn't some anti-american foreigner.
The parents DID NOT do it.
You guys are trying to solve the case by reading the wikipedia article and a few other sites. Independent, way more qualified investigators than you reviewed the case using all the information from primary sources, and determined that the parents didn't do it.
>I can honestly say that obviously, the parents didn't have any direct or (probably) indirect involvement with their daughter's death.
Why would you not be able to honestly state an opinion? An opinion you provided nothing in support of, mind you.
didn't do it sure but that doesn't mean they weren't part of the cover up.
the only reason the parents are still suspected after being "cleared" is because of the ransom letter imo. It's just too out of the ordinary especially since 1.) she was already dead so why risk getting caught 2.) the amount. $118,000 isn't a random number to ask for. since she's already dead why risk it for that amount, even if she was alive you usually see ransoms arount the quarter marks i.e. 250,000/500,000/1,000,000. hell even 100,000 would be more believable.
a third reason would be they never got the call, and fourth for shits and gigs she was wrapped in her 'special' blanket. when things like that happen its usually by someone who cared for the victim not kidnappers/murderers
I disagree with this because there are too many leaps going on here. The motive doesn't quite make sense and nobody ever mentioned the mother being like that, I hardly think that kind of person would be so subtle (especially shoving her kid in pageants) so that others wouldn't notice, especially when that aspect of their life was so carefully investigated and discussed. I don't usually bring up occam's razor but this is one situation where it fits. I also find it kind of extraordinary that the mother would just randomly find someone ("probably a lover"...?) to rape and murder her kid and then keep quiet about it with no visible incentive to do so when I'm sure there was some financial reward for information.
Why assume the father is innocent then? Maybe he wrote the note. He knew his bonus better than anybody.
I used to work in her home town. Once found a message written under a toilet tank lid that said "I killed Jodi, find me pigs".
Cops were called, don't think it went anywhere.
Completely wrong. Scores of higher ups were convinced it was the parents. They threw a lot of money around at the time and had powerful friends and it clouded the investigation. But the evidence was still very strong. Probably part of a high level pedophile ring, given their connections and acquaintances . Disgusting people.
>Probably part of a high level pedophile ring, given their connections and acquaintances
This again. Do you have proof of any of this?
What I find interesting about the supposed pedophile rings that some people here are obsessed with is this: why go through all the fucking trouble of killing some blonde, rich American girl? These supposedly rich and powerful pedo rings could get tons of kids with no issue and nobody looking for them, why go after children that WILL be looked for? Even if you assume they wanted white kids there are plenty of them in Eastern Europe. It makes no fucking sense.
And if her parents are part of a pedo ring, why did they call the cops when the kid was found to be missing? Why did anybody call the cops? Are the cops part of the pedo rings too? If so, why bother publicizing anything? Or is the media trying to distract us from the pedo rings because they are the pedo rings? I mean tell me, where does it end?
I don't think it was parents because after exhaustive investigation (and by exhaustive it should be said the police completely fucked up the investigation with their incompetence) nobody had enough evidence to show anything. The DNA didn't add up.
while not plausible it still is a possibility.
why? if you had your choice from a random chick or your choice of celebrity(pedo equivalent to pageant princess) who would you take? They are powerful they don't care if the police are looking for them because they are protected.
>why kill her
for some sick fantasy, they already what to fuck kids.
>Why did they call the cops
because how else would they explain their missing daughter? after not going to school for weeks, never entering a pageant again and friends of the parents not seeing her around whenever they went over, how would they explain it to her brother? calling the cops and making it a murder sounds like a much easier cover-up.
like another poster said all they did was prove that they couldn't prove the parents did it. The DNA leads down 3 roads. first kidnapper, second lover/friend of the family, third pedo ring.
don't confuse not being the killer with not being part of the cover-up.
Read up about the case, it' pretty interesting. Nothing is conclusive but there are a lot of angles there. They didn't keep great company to say the least.
Obviously with Jonbenet, they messed up, accidents happen.
Regardless of a sexual backdrop, it would be almost impossible to look at the evidence and not conclude Patsy was involved in the death.
Most of the people involved in the case have said that their hands were tied. There were numerous fuck ups from the beginning.
Also a grand jury did Indict John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey, the prosecutor chose not to prosecute, make of that what you will.
But if they are protected, ostensibly by powerful pedophiles, why bother calling the cops? They are protected, after all.
The DNA proved that the parents did not rape the child and therefor makes it very unlikely that they were involved with the murder. All it means is that someone outside of the family was involved with this and considering the lack of other evidence to implicate them it makes sense that they weren't involved. Why cover up something you likely aren't involved with?
Again, if you are going to make up some massive fantasy scenario of powerful pedophile rings and their supposed motivations and connections you need to make it fit real life and it doesn't.
So a massive, powerful pedophile ring decided to murder a rich, somewhat famous, blonde American girl because...reasons and they were powerful enough to get a rich, successful family to go along with them for also reasons and in murdering the kid decided to write some random, strange note for the police that the parents called for reasons unknown (but hey, we're making all this shit up, insert whatever) and despite being a massive, powerful pedophile ring they managed to hide evidence to implicate the parents but couldn't manage to half the publicity and investigation into the case even though they decided to leave a bunch of ambiguous clues everywhere? Also, since the pedo rings apparently can't control the cops well enough to keep them from investigating it but the cops cleared the parents so...? And the people who know better are a bunch of internet detectives? I mean, can you see the absurdity of this?
>it would be almost impossible to look at the evidence and not conclude Patsy was involved in the death.
No, it wouldn't be. Please show evidence that she was conclusively involved.
And they didn't prosecute because lack of evidence.
But the mother is the only one who has any believable motive.
She was the one who discovered the ransom note, and yet she called cops and family friends even though the note SPECIFIED NOT TO DO SO. No normal mother would be so stupid as to do shit like that with her child's life on the line, and she doesn't sound like a stupid woman. Therefore the only logical explanation is that she knew about the note. Also why wouldn't the wife know about the bonus?
Also, are you trying to tell me that if you raped and murdered a little girl, you'd just come forward and confess because there's a "financial reward for information"?
I'm assuming the father is innocent because there are so many obvious attempts to frame the father. The sexual abuse (the fact that she wasn't outright raped is quite suspicious in itself), the ransom note, etc. Besides, it's much more common for mothers to kill their children than it is for fathers.
What the other responses said, besides, it's kind of a big factor in the case that the initial work on the case was sloppy as fuck.