I'm looking for information related to Carcosa, Taured, Hy-Brasil, Brigadoon, etc. Areas that sometimes occupy locations on Earth, but are usually invisible/inaccessible. I've got a weird feeling that they're all the same place, but I don't know where to start.
>>16934250 OP here. I'm fucking sick as hell, practically coughing up my lungs, and I can't sleep, so I'll post what I know so far, and see if it gives anyone any ideas.
What I know about Carcosa (Part I):
Carcosa is first mentioned by Ambrose Bierce in his story "An Inhabitant of Carcosa." The story consists of information dictated to "the medium Bayrolles" by the spirit of "Hoseib Alar Robardin." In the story, we learn that Carcosa is a city where the dead can accidentally wander to, despite its being far away from Earth in a physical sense. I believe that the important part of "An Inhabitant" is this, a treatise by the philosopher "Hali," which the main character is pondering during his transition to Carcosa:
"For there be divers sorts of death -- some wherein the body remaineth; and in some it vanisheth quite away with the spirit. This commonly occurreth only in solitude (such is God's will) and, none seeing the end, we say the man is lost, or gone on a long journey -- which indeed he hath; but sometimes it hath happened in sight of many, as abundant testimony showeth. In one kind of death the spirit also dieth, and this it hath been known to do while yet the body was in vigor for many years. Sometimes, as is veritably attested, it dieth with the body, but after a season is raised up again in that place where the body did decay."
So we've got four types of death:
1) "Normal," where the body remains but the spirit goes.
2) "Journey Death," where the body vanishes along with the spirit and goes somewhere (presumably Carcosa).
3) "Soul Death," where the soul dies, but the body keeps going (like a zombie?)
4) "Temporary Death/Astral Projection," where the spirit leaves the body for a year, and then returns.
Presumably, 2 and 4 provide you with an opportunity to go to Carcosa.
>>16937585 Certainly Carcosa only appears in fiction, and I'm not suggesting Brigadoon is real- what I am looking at is the idea that the attributes shared by what we'll term "transient locales" are sourced from somewhere. The concept pops up enough in myth and legend (see the Grail Castle, Eden, Xanadu, Shangri-La/Shanbhala, etc., in addition to places already mentioned) that I believe there is a real place on which this "creative gestalt" is based, and I want to find it.
>>16937583 You probably know it but here's Chambers poem that opens his book of short stories the King in Yellow. "The king in yellow" is actually a play, it pops up in some of the short stories and the characters that read it go mad. The play takes place in Carcosa.
Along the shore the cloud waves break, The twin suns sink behind the lake, The shadows lengthen
Strange is the night where black stars rise, And strange moons circle through the skies, But stranger still is
Songs that the Hyades shall sing, Where flap the tatters of the King, Must die unheard in
Song of my soul, my voice is dead, Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed Shall dry and die in
—"Cassilda's Song" in The King in Yellow Act 1, Scene 2
Robert W. Chambers was the first guy to take the concept of Carcosa and really flesh it out. He links it with the god of shepherds, Hastur, which is mentioned first in Bierce's story "Haita The Shepherd."
The story is very strange, featuring a shepherd with no memory in an unknown land who is visited thrice by a radiant maiden. Each time he asks the maiden's name, or inquires about her nature, she withdraws.
The clue is here: 'Nay, thou shalt not have me by seeking. Go to thy duty, faithless shepherd, or we shall never meet again.'
The maiden is supposed to represent Happiness, but I think she might actually be a metaphor for some kind of portal.
Anyway, tangent aside, we've got Chambers writing about Carcosa in the context of the play "The King in Yellow" from >>16937611
From what he says, the city itself is somewhere by a lake (Lake Hali), and we've got twin suns (Aldebaran/the Hyades). So Carcosa is on a different planet, but you can somehow accidentally end up there (using the gateways mentioned in "Inhabitant" or the portal from "Haita").
If anyone else has any ideas about themes I should explore here, that would be cool.
>>16937633 Hy-Brasil was an island which appeared on ancient maps as early as 1325 and into the 1800s. On most maps, it was located roughly 321km (200 miles) off the west coast of Ireland in the North Atlantic Ocean. One of the most distinctive geographical features of Hy-Brasil on those maps is that it often appears as a circle with a channel (or river) running east to west across the diameter. Stories about the island have circulated throughout Europe for centuries with tales that it was the promised land of saints or a paradise where an advanced civilization lived. In Irish myth, it was said to be clouded in mist except for one day every seven years when it became visible but still could not be reached.
It appears on the Piri Reis map, as well as some other old maps.
In 1480, John Jay Jr. departed from Bristol, England on a journey to find the fabled island only to come back empty handed after spending two months at sea. In 1481, two more ships, the Trinity and the George, departed from Bristol on an expedition to find Hy-Brasil with no success either.
Interestingly, in 1497, Spanish diplomat Pedro de Ayala reported to the Catholic Monarchs of Spain, that John Cabot (the first European to visit North America since the Vikings) had “discovered in the past by the men from Bristol who found Brasil.” This implied someone from one of the Bristol expeditions had actually managed to find it.
Nearly two centuries later Scottish sea captain, John Nisbet, claimed to have spotted Hy-Brasil on his voyage from France to Ireland in 1674. He is said to have sent a party of four ashore where the sailors spent the entire day on the island.
There, they claim to have met a wise old man who provided them with gold and silver. Strangely, the captain said the island was inhabited by large black rabbits and a mysterious magician who lived in a large stone castle by himself. A follow up expedition was led by captain Alexander Johnson who also claimed to have found Hy-Brasil, confirming Nisbet’s findings.
When it was last observed on a map in 1865, it was simply noted as “Brazil rock.”
The last documented sighting of Hy-Brasil was made in 1872 by Robert O’Flaherty and T.J. Westropp. Westropp claimed to have visited the island on three previous occasions and was so captivated by it that he brought his family with him to see it in person. There, they all witnessed it appear out of nowhere only to see it vanish again before their very eyes.
Rendlesham Forest Incident: A strange craft was reported to have landed outside a U.S. military base in the U.K. Sergeant Jim Penniston claims to have touched this craft and telepathically received binary code into his mind. The code was said to list very specific coordinates of Hy-Brasil and listed the location where ancient cartographers had it mapped. The message also listed the coordinates of several other ancient sites around the world. At the very bottom of the message, coordinates of Hy-Brasil were listed again along with an origin year of 8100.
>>16937633 >If anyone else has any ideas about themes I should explore here, that would be cool. Yeah, about this idea of getting there. I'd adivse you to think of these places like a story or a mythology. And im not saying that you should consider them "not real" or "less real". Just not like locations in the spatial sense of a location but more like a psychic locations. This works much like taking on a creed or a religion. Suddendly you start seeing the world through a certain view, you notice certains things you did not before that are connected with this story, and the world and events take on this "aura", for lack of a better word, that they take place in this particular story. For example this happened to me with Carcosa and the King in Yellow because i was writing the third act of the play, and yeah it becomes that place, it's not so much going somehwere different but this place taking on the shapes of somewhere else. Other than that i guess Astral Projection or dreams could get you there, if you want to try your hand at that.
>>16937662 I can definitely see your point about psychic "locations." The more I look at things centered around this "transient locale" trope, the more things I start to see that seem related/connected. That's how I ended up running into the legends of Hy-Brazil and Taured.
So, just to be clear, you're suggesting that the ideal methodology would be, for lack of a better term, "openness to the idea" of there being a concrete source for this gestalt, and examining information that seems related until it "clicks?"
>>16937660 Last bit of source info, regarding Taured (then I'm going to "hang up and listen," as they say in radioland):
The year 1954 was hotter than normal in Tokyo, but at Haneda Airport it was business as usual. That is, of course, until one unknown date when a routine European inbound plane dropped off its passengers. As the crowd made its way through customs, a neatly-dressed middle-aged Caucasian man stepped up and told officials this was just a normal business trip or him, one of three so far this year to Japan. His primary language was French, yet he spoke Japanese and several other languages. In his wallet was a variety of currencies from various European countries, as if to verify his frequent flyer tendencies.
When they asked him for his country of origin, things became strange. He casually stated that he was from Taured, on the border between France and Spain. The officials told him that Taured didn’t exist, but he presented them with his passport—issued by the nonexistent country of Taured—which also showed visa stamps corroborating his previous business travels to Japan and other countries. Yet when they called the company he said he was having a meeting with, they had never heard of him or his company ever before that moment. The hotel he had reserved a room at had no reservation for such a person, and the bank listed on his checkbook appeared not to exist.
The bearded man scoffed; surely, this was some elaborate practical joke for his benefit. Customs officials showed him a world map and pointed to the tiny country of Andorra. The man became irate, saying that Andorra didn’t exist but it was right where Taured should be. His proud country had existed for a thousand years. Still in shock over his misplaced homeland, the mystery man was detained by customs and given a room at a nearby hotel for the night while officials tried to figure out what was going on.
>>16937691 The following morning, the mystery deepened. Taured’s one and only known resident completely vanished from his hotel room which had been guarded by immigration officials all night long. And to make matters worse, all of his personal documents—including his passport and drivers license issued by the mystery country—vanished from the airport’s security room. Police and airport officials searched in vain for the mysterious man. It was as if the whole encounter had never actually happened.
Surprisingly, misplaced travelers such as the business man from Taured have appeared on many occasions. In 1851, a man was found wandering Frankfurt an der Oder in northeast Germany who claimed he was from a country called Laxaria on the continent of Sakria. Another young man who spoke a completely unrecognizable language was caught stealing a loaf of bread in Paris in 1905; he said he was from Lizbia, which authorities assumed was Lisbon—or Lisboa in Portuguese, yet his language was not Portuguese nor did he recognize a map of Portugal as his homeland.
That's pretty much what I have so far. People who want to contribute other legends of "transient locales" are welcome to do so. Get creative with it. I'll answer direct questions where I can, but I'm more interested in seeing where people go with this (on top of, you know, visiting the place in question). Who knows, we might actually solve something eldritch for once!
>>16937682 >"openness to the idea" of there being a concrete source for this gestalt, and examining information that seems related until it "clicks?" More agressive methods would be actively pursuing it. In my example i was immersed in that myth because i was writting a story that was part of it. But it was like pulling me in, there was an attraction there.
Other methods involve surrounding yourself with things related to these places, drawing maps, or the places themselves, or just taking a walk in your city and try to actually find them... If you pursue this tho, I tell you things might start getting pretty real pretty fast.
You seem to be looking for this place in between places, this elusive city, and it is a trip down the rabbit hole, a sort of madness aswell. Just try to remember the way back.
>>16937722 I've never actually thought of it that way, but I catch your drift. I've felt like I've been on the border of it before a couple times- and I may have stumbled into it once as a kid on accident. Not the city, but the place between. I hadn't thought about that in years.
I was sent out into the yard behind the private nursing home in the mountains where my grandma was staying to play for the afternoon. The lady who owned the place had a few dogs, and they were typical friendly types, but they kept to themselves. However, on this particular occasion, one of them, little guy, some kind of terrier I think, showed up in the clearing I was playing in (hitting a tree with a stick or something, idk). He asked me what I was doing and I told him I was pretending to be a knight, and he told me he wanted to show me something cool and to follow him. He ran off, and I ran after, ended up running all over the woods, up hills, crossed a river, just kids playing, pretty much, he kept showing me cool rocks and trees and stuff. I think we talked about finding a dragon somewhere. When it was around time to go, the dog took me back to the house.
Many years later my grandpa ended up staying there and I decided to take a walk outside in the woods, and I shit you not, the yard was maybe 100 feet square with a fence around it, and there were no water features at all. I know I spent a good four hours in the woods adventuring with the dog- asked my mom if the fence was new and she said it had always been there.
>>16937746 Yeah man that's the spot, where fantasy and reality blend into each other. That story is awesome. It seems easier to visit this place as a kid, as we grow we forget these things, we get taught the world is a certain way and we start living in that world. But still the space in between keeps popping up, people keep making maps where it features, or talking about these strange cities, somewhere. But it still holds that glow, that otherness, that attracts us. Like this writers writing about these ruined cities, these sad, forgotten places, like they are hinting at somewhere we abandoned a long time ago but it still haunts us. Maybe it's good to pay a visit every once a while. Go on a bit of an adventure.
I have no idea why, but this entire concept / thread reminds me of a poem my great grandmother wrote. (At least, I think she wrote it, she may have simply copied it from somewhere). She used to write down half-thought-stories, poems, songs,etc--and she was almost always reading some old book. I wish I had access (or knew what ultimately happened) to her collection, but I still have some of her work. Greentext is her work:
>As existence desires to exist, so too shall I become what was once nothing. >Show me then, before the beginning, and after the ending, the place before space and an eternity before time. >The consciousness wills into being only more of itself, and in turn, it is no longer. >Collective consciousness is the ambivalence, anathematizing perfection. >I will show you, then, the beginning before, and the ending after. >The space before there was a place, and a time before there was an eternity. >As cessation desires to cease, so too shall I become what was once something.
>>16937746 when i was about 6 years old, i remember with alot of details that i went with my grandfather to an old windmill that was located in my city in the middle of a cereal field.
I remember that there was a road that had pine trees on both sides leading to the mill. Over there i met with my best friend that was there with his grandmother.
Inside the mill there was an old dude listening to a song that me and my friend can remember the lyrics of very clearly. The strange part is that only the two of us remember the experience, and everyone tells us that there never was a mill in our town, and everyone we ask never heard that song, ever.
We asked our grandparents a couple of years ago about it and they said they don't remember the trip to the mill and that there never was a mill to begin with, at least not where we're saying.
This is still a mystery to us, but we know for sure we were there.
>>16939334 --cont. Last year we were set to find the place were we knew the mill was, we took about a week to walk around the places that we remembered. on the sixth day of searching the road with the pines we finally found it. We were kinda thrilled and started following it, but it lead to a forest and the base of the hills, but we clearly remembered a flat small field in the middle of which the windmill was located.
I remember from a few years back on my way to college, walk to the avenue where I took the bus, it felt weird but I couldn't tell what it was, I looked at these massive palm trees with their leaves waving in the wind, I took my bus and then the next day I tried to find this large palm trees and saw nothing, I asked my mother and many more people about the palm trees but they told me there has never been palm trees growing in the avenue. How weird, I still remember the sounds the leaves made.
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