Yaois artists keep on their patreons please.
Ya know, at first I was appreciative about patreon; it's a good way for artists to raise money for themselves by utilizing their talents that might not otherwise be useful in society unless you're a graphic designer or land a rare job. However, the longer it's been out the more I see it as nothing more than capitalism at its worst.
you do realize the "patron" system is how art literally evolved and survived for hundreds of years? wealthy patrons have funded poor artists--that's just called history. i don't see how the 21st century advent of crowdfunding makes this worse. seems like a better option to me.
but leave it to the fags of /y/ to be salty that they can't just get all animu pornz for free. all this board is anymore is just ppl begging for BMP updates + COOT game files. maybe stop yourself from buying that next 2 liter jug of mountain dew and give a few bucks to an artist for yr next fap instead. or continue being a piece of shit i don't really care.
No. Artists have survived from commissions, not because of patronization. Artists were paid to make what they were paid to, not paid to make whatever they want.
Patreon is shit because there is no concrete punishment if the creator doesn't fulfill promises.
But you cannot guarantee that the artists you are affecting with piracy committed some sort of 'failure to deliver'. Moreover, there is a simple punishment: the patrons would just stop pledging and wander off.
Artists have survived from commissions AND patronage and usually through having to find ways to convince people their work is worth something. But I honestly don't see how this is a positive argument in your favor? "I'd rather have to pay an artist a hefty sum to get *one* picture out of them than pay $1 to have access to their whole library of done things."
As someone else said, these are just justifications for "I want these things for free and artists won't yield to me. So I will moralize about how they're Probably doing Something Bad so I can feel good messing them up."
lol why do pirates get so salty when they have to look themselves in the mirror?
yes, 'piracy' is our colloquial term for when you obtain something that has a capital value on the internet and you do not pay $ for it. sorry it hits a nerve.
i've never used patreon but i imagine if the artist didnt create what they promised i'd just remove my patronage and report them? either get my $ back from patreon or laugh over it b/c oh no five dollars went to an artist whose work i enjoy.
looking forward to watching this thread spiral out of control as fags justify why they shouldn't pay a few bucks to support artists drawing porn they jerk off to. *grabs popcorn*
>"I'd rather have to pay an artist a hefty sum to get *one* picture out of them than pay $1 to have access to their whole library of done things"
What the fuck are you talking about? A lot of these Patreon artists release one image pack a month that you have to $25-30 just to get the finished work you want, anything less and you get stuck with the sketch or B&W. Then these artists set it so the image pack is delivered directly to a Patrons email, making it impossible for future patrons to get any of the artists past works. Hell, I'd rather pay $50 to commission something I want to see rather than some image set that I think is "Meh."
With that being said I'll gladly dump a few images from Patreon, because fuck it.
> some image I think is "Meh"
If you think it's "Meh", what's the point of sharing it? Just don't pay and let it sink into irrelevancy. If it's good enough to fap to, it's good enough to invest in the artist for more.
Thank you, kind anon. Allow me to take your place as I make use of this shitty thread.
/y/ is for porn, faggots. Take your shitty discussion to reddit.
I dump while I dump so I can dump as I dump.
If it's any consolation, I haven't paid for any of this.
Are you suggesting that people who draw porn on the internet should have real jobs? Perish the thought.
He's usually pretty good, just that sometimes he does produce derp work. I've actually commissioned him a couple of times.
Art is a "real job" since its products are not only wanted (as made evident with this threat full of THIRST for it) but you have to go to school for it, to improve and get better, or at least spend years polishing a skill. A job is, ultimately, a relationship where someone does something for monetary compensation.
I love these patreon threads where people simultaneously shit on artists and yet *desperately* want to see their work.
Pirates are so fragile they can't deal with the fact the ultimate, base motivation for their actions is not some noble 'stand up to the MAN' but simply 'I want my porn, weh, why must you charge me for it?'
Your argument is mainly semantics (which means its just bullshit), but I'll give it a go.
Art /is/ a real job - on that we are agreed. Art provides necessary cultural richness to society that cannot be measured or fully quantified. What we aren't agreed on is the definition of art.
The works generally posted on /y/ can be very beautiful - but they are rendered for the purpose of being pornography. That is, they are created for the distinct purpose of being sexual appealing and arousing. They are not art - art exists on its merits, for no other purpose than its expression. However, even pornography can be a "real job" (in that it somehow contributes to society as a whole).
What does not contribute are amateur artists on the internet - who, instead of peddling their art in environments where it can be reviewed for its merit or enjoyed for the arousal it causes, exists in a void where the artist expects to have money thrown at them for the act of creating itself - rather the quality of the work produced. As such, the pornography exists for the benefit of the artist, not the benefit of the viewer. It provides nothing to anyone - and I feel confident saying that the "artist" should probably go find themselves a job flipping burgers.
To continue, jobs do not always have monetary compensation. That is ludicrous. Do they /usually/ have monetary compensation? Sure. But, it's still a meaningless blanket statement.
Also, get the fuck off your high horse. It's just porn, you sperglord.
May you get one of those jobs that don't offer monetary compensation, then, see how quickly you will continue calling it a 'job.'
Straight out of the dictionary: "a piece of work, especially a specific task done as part of the routine of one's occupation or for an agreed price."
As for "That's called copyright infringement" Well good, go to any artist alley on any con and make sure to snatch the fanart right off the booths and as soon as someone complains, tell them "You shouldn't be making money out of this! It's copyright infringement."
"It's just porn, you sperglord" - nah, not really. It's someone's income.
'exists in a void where the artist expects to have money thrown at them for the act of creating itself - rather the quality of the work produced. As such, the pornography exists for the benefit of the artist, not the benefit of the viewer.'
'these artists suck they're so bad they shouldn't charge for their stuff it has no value' on a thread of people asking to see that stuff that has 'no value.'
>"You shouldn't be making money out of this! It's copyright infringement."
You shouldn't be selling fanart and making a profit from someone else's character, you fool. If you're not creative enough to make your own characters and have to steal someone else's work of fiction, you don't deserved to be paid.
Copyright infringement is a tricky subject. Like most laws, it's only enforced in proper situations. When it comes to big companies, public relations (PR) is often more important than protecting the rights of your character, unless the profit is an actual threat and/or serious offense. Companies who come down on single individuals such as freelance artists usually receive such a bad reputation from doing so that they lose more than they gain.
For individuals, copyright is hard to enforce and mostly gives you the right to submit take down requests. It primarily helps protect smaller business from having their ideas stolen by bigger corporations (which is why you sometimes see some small loudmouth trying to claim they came up with the idea first whenever a Disney movie is released hoping the bad PR will win them a settlement).
What that means for a situation like Patreon is that the artist can ask for money because the company owning something like Final Fantasy's Cloud isn't going to sue over it ever, but the artist can't ask for it to be taken down either since they have no such rights to the characters they draw.
However, the hosting site is free to support the idea of making a living through Patreon and remove reposted content as they see fit. That's the advantage of having your own site, you get to make up the rules. And if you don't like how someone runs it, there's plenty of other sites to visit.
The bottom line here is that it's not wrong for artists to try and make a living off their art, even if they draw fan art because it's easier to profit from. It shouldn't be frowned upon, and the copyright laws hardly evolve as fast as the actual media they dictate. However, those artists also have to face the reality that their stuff will be shared regardless and it's simply the nature of the medium (but that doesn't mean they should give it away for free, it only means changes the percentage of people who pirate and people who purchase).
Again, that is something for the patrons to decide. If they don't think it's worth the money then they don't pay, simple, and the artists' work fades into oblivion.
But that's the thing. *You* can not pay the artist and that's it. But the point of patreon piracy is diminishing the income for the artist, even from people who are willing to pay them money.
And again, it's because the explanation is far simpler than all this moralizing you're using. You want free stuff. You can't have it. Rarrr anon smash, teach mean artist lesson so maybe they give us free stuff again, raar.
(Different annon) My thing is, if I want to support an artist, I commission them. I've commissioned so many things over the years, I know ONE year I spent over $1000 on commissions, and when I find one I like, I'll keep supporting them with Commissions. But the idea of having to pay someone to see all their work when it may or may not be something im interested in (and more likely not because I have weird tastes) and then having to commission them on top of that... I mean, from another prerspective, maaaaybe if I had a lot of money, )I don't have the spare money I used to) maybe it would be differen't. But now? I've only been able to afford 3 commissions this year. But whenever I get on my feet again, I'll support them again.
>but you have to go to school for it
You don't need to have any form of education to be an artist. You just need to draw good and "studying" art won't do jack shit except maybe make you a pretentious snob.
What the fuck are you gonna do with an art degree? Even if you're a highschool drop out, you can still make good cash either being self employed or working for someone, but for that you need a big gallery with which to prove yourself. An art degree just proves that you have thousands upon thousands of dollars to waste
Sounds like a way to sell "prints" over the internet without making anything physical, am I right?
If there's one thing I hate about 4chan it's how nerds want and base their fap time around doujins and things on rule34, want art of their OCs and they take inspiration from artists but they forget that people spend money making all this stuff and most of it wouldn't exist if someone hadn't bought and scanned the doujins or paid the commission or encouraged the artist in other ways.
I'm not judging your life, anons, I'm just saying you could be doing and thinking about things in a more realistic manner. Things do appear for free on the internet as if by magic but they weren't created by magic. We're all alive for a short time and during that time some people make pictures and get paid for it. It's not all Jesus figurines in a jar of piss and 300 year old paintings. If you're a pirate at least understand what it is you're leeching off of.
Your argument is mainly semantics too. Why do we even have to talk about "art"—call it illustration if you want to, although I'd argue that "art" is just a mixture of skill + creative application of said skill. Your definition is not monolithic and doesn't speak universally.
But even, OK, we're not even going to use the "A" word because it doesn't fucking matter—we're going to call this porn. The fact that /y/ even exists is proof that your "pornography exists for the benefit of the artist, not the benefit of the viewer" statement is bullshit. People here are hungry for porn. They whine when they don't get it for free (see: every Black Monkey P thread ever).
If people devote time to something and expect $ in exchange, and people will actually pay them $ in exchange for this thing that they create, then there is a demand. Even if it's animu gay porn.
I 100% agree that you don't need to go to art school to make art, but not sure how it makes you a "pretentious snob"—people go to school because they want to learn skills to further their education.
Also lol @ "galleries". Not all art/design schools are hippy-dippy and focused exclusively around Fine Art. A lot of them are focused around business skills and what you will do to support yourself after you graduate.
Yes, it's expensive, yes, if you don't get scholarships you'll probably be in debt, but people have their reasons. Think of it like Greek life: you may think sororities/frats are dumb, but some of these people use those social connections for the rest of their lives. Art school can provide similar connections and resources.
I'm not arguing that art school is the right choice for everyone, especially if you aren't on a fellowship or don't have a long-term plan for your life, but it's certainly not useless.
Although there's nothing wrong with supporting artists through commissions, the price you pay for a commission makes a truly low hourly pay and doesn't give the artist the freedom to just draw what they want. The communication process, approving sketches, fixes, added all together freelance commissions are kind of a shit job.
Patreon is just much more effecient in comparison. You get more art for less money, and the artist gets more money from multiple backers. If you want to support artists, just support them on Patreon - it's a healthier business model for both you and them. They get a steady income, and you can be as flexible with your support as you want to be.
Well, in an effort to keep this thread less shitty, all I can do is make a request. Does anyone have any of inmomakuro's monthly reward stuff? There's been 3 previews for each month and I would kill for most of the stuff on there.
I used to have this as a patreon only gift, but here you go guys
IMO the face is so weird haha oh well, I need to get better at this
imo patreon isn't too bad, the problem I have with it is that supporting multiple artists gets way too expensive, especially when it's your favorite artist and you want their good stuff which is obviously going to be in the higher priced tiers
but, like, other than that good shit
I don't really think there's a problem with Patreon itself, per se; there's plenty of work out there that I wouldn't have any trouble supporting. The artists I support are the ones that also regularly post things to their unlocked galleries anyway.
The problem is that you get greedy assholes that ruin the entire premise for everyone else, seeing nothing but the cash they could make by restricting everything just to their patreon. People like Luxuris -- who was doing this even before he switched to patreon -- turns me off on the whole idea. Their works getting 'pirated' does kind of suck, but I'm not going to shed a tear over it happening to shitty people.
The other day I went to this shitty dentist who had the audacity of trying to charge me for this thing I wanted. And he's been doing it his whole LIFE too, the jerk. At the very least he shouldn't be so restrictive and throw in a few sessions pro-bono, right?
And you wouldn't believe it either-- the other day I saw some lady at the food market keeping the food she's been selling her whole life behind a paywall like, what gives? I won't shed a tear if someone steals some of her produce, shitty people. I mean, she's doing what she loves-- she should be giving the food away for free if she likes growing it so much.
Tl;dr: My god these artists and their filthy wish to make a living with their work that nobody asked them to do for and yet we have a thread entirely dedicated to try to get our hands on. Scum of the earth, I say.
That's true, my bad. I really had a poor argument there. I used healthcare and food as if they were analogous to what art is: ultimately, a luxury, so it's even cheaper and more embarrassing when people whine about artists being greedy because they can't have free access to the luxury goods/services that the artists offer.
Theyre fucking naked cartoon characters, please stop comparing it to commissioned fucking painters and sculptors of the past.
It's fine they can totally get their money for whatever has been posted in this thread (which over all seems not worth a fee) but stop using bullshit holier then thou shit when in reality, no, sorry a fucking sculpture or painting of a political activist or tyrant doesn't hold the same weight as a hetalia character with facial proportions off and a copy paste dick slapped on.
Good, great, then don't bother with it. Nobody is forcing you to pay - specially for something you, by admission, consider shitty and therefor do not want.
The problem is people who pirate and share it.
If you don't like what a store sells, you don't buy there, simple as that. You don't open a back door and slam a sign that says "everything here is free, ignore the price tags, go wild."
Come on, let's be real here. Most artists don't even want their free stuff posted without their permission in the first place(So pretty much 99% of this board), especially pixiv artists. Why do some of you start caring about their rights NOW?
because you took from us.
the pixiv artists will fight their own battle, but you took from us, and in a simple matter of language, we can communicate our annoyance
heck I don't even come to 4chan, i was just informed of another patreon thread going on and i had to come speak my mind cuz if we were gonna be pirated i would at least have my say about it.
Hey, I feel for you but if you're going to sit here and whine you might as well take the extra step and get a DNP list going so we never have to hear anything about you and your life again.
Honestly, I prefer if people just pirate my work rather than exploiting rejected credit cards.
Pirates will be there no matter what but those guys make it quite hard to have something extra for higher-tier patrons without the fear of actually losing money.
>All the moralfags in this thread
Do you know where you are right now? Kindly fuck off back to tumblr and cry to your idiots about how 4chan raped your financial means. We really don't care. We're gonna steal your porn, and that's all there is to it. Just jack your prices up more and exploit those poor idiots that DO pay you, because we never will.
> WE ARE ANONYMOUS!1!!! WE ARE LEGION!!1!
> IT'S 4CHAN SO OF COURSE EVERYONE IS A DICK!1!!
Top kek. Don't throw a tantrum because you can't buy porn with your parent's credit card.
tbh i'm guessing this is just a discrepancy of age of teens fighting w/ ppl in their older twenties. if you are 24 or older and still toting this HERP DERP WE ARE ANONYMOUS GO CRY ELSEWHERE rhetoric you're probably a spoiled brat who has never had to pay for anything in their lives. or a STEM basic bitch who has no creativity and doesn't 'get' what it's like to try to survive off of your art that you worked hard on.
i'm a tried and true pirate, but i'm also an adult who is like what the fuck is giving a few dollars to an artist for something i am going to fap to. don't like the art? not going to fap to it? then don't download or beg or reshare it if you hate it so much. but let's be real, you fatasses are more than willing to pay that for delivery pizza with mommy's credit card, but somehow get all RAAAAAGE over gay weeaboo art that you're secretly thirsty for. stop being tsudere. you want the yaoi. pony up the $.
Le ebin memers are just as cancerous as analmoose being edgy for the sake of being edgy.
Congratulations. You've turned a porn thread on a board where 99% of content is reposted from somewhere else into a discussion about piracy and the ethics of acquiring 2D porn.
This isn't 18+ DA or Etsy. Post porn.
You don't know what piracy means
Do you? No matter how much you will beg and scream we won't pay and we will still get it for free one way or another. Also art is worst job choice there is. Do not blame us for their stupid career choices
Most of the content here is reposted from something put on the Internet for free viewing. Do you really not differentiate that from something locked up and for sale?
Like, I sell my art on the side (as physical prints). I also post up images of the prints I sell, although in lower resolution, because hey, art is for sharing. If people repost the latter, I don't really mind. But if you would go up to my stall and take my the 500dpi files from my USB key, and post THAT, then I /would/ have a bone to pick with you.
It's not like these artists are locking up all the gay porn and forcing you to pay for them. They're making some of their works exclusive, so that people who ARE willing to pay are getting a better deal. I understand that things will inevitably leak, but that doesn't make it okay to break open the damn safebox.
> also implying I don't post porn on /y/
I draw it... for free...
>Do you really not differentiate that from something locked up and for sale?
Patreon and other premium paywall sites aren't exactly "locked up", no more than music on iTunes or movies on Netflix.
>But if you would go up to my stall and take my the 500dpi files from my USB key
Some faggot spending 10 bucks to beat his dick and share the images on boorus is much different than someone snatching a USB drive.
>hey're making some of their works exclusive, so that people who ARE willing to pay are getting a better deal.
It's not a better deal if it's the only option. Unless you're talking about discounts on commissions, etc.
>I understand that things will inevitably leak, but that doesn't make it okay to break open the damn safebox.
Like I said, no one's "breaking open" anything. No one's stealing your storage media or getting PSDs off of your cloud drive. You're putting it out there, and the people who do pay for it share it with everyone else.
If someone likes someone's content and wants to support them, that's great. But piracy is never going to be stopped. Depending on kindness from Internet strangers to pay your bills is silly.
It's not exactly 'locked up' because Patreon's security system is, admittedly, dismal. Something that we do hope will be fixed up soon. It won't stop piracy but it should make it clear the payment is not optional.
> You're putting it out there, and the people who do pay for it share it with everyone else.
We're not putting it out there. We're putting it behind a paywall that, again, to our misfortune, is flimsy.
But this is as if saying that, should I put up a stall on the street, it's my fault that it's easy to access so if someone shoplifts, I should've thought about having tougher security: no, that's the crook's fault for stealing.'
And no, people aren't sharing: This is *why* someone had to actually create a bot system that scours patreons to rip out the stuff. People weren't sharing it, or at the very least, they weren't doing a systematic download-and-upload of it, AND clogging the high tier Patreon slots.
>hey're making some of their works exclusive, so that people who ARE willing to pay are getting a better deal.
>It's not a better deal if it's the only option. Unless you're talking about discounts on commissions, etc.
It's not the only option. You have the option of NOT paying and not getting what you didn't pay for: move along. But CLEARLY you are interested in the deal and the content within, else you wouldn't advocate for pirating it. This very thread being an example of interest. So there IS value to it.
> Depending on kindness from Internet strangers to pay your bills is silly.
This, and the excuse that Patreon is open, is victim blaming. 'It's your fault for being putting it there-- if you hadn't done that, then I wouldn't have taken from you. People will always take from you, too-- I'm encouraging you to find a safer job, BY TAKING FROM YOU.'
This also takes me back to the whole justifying the piracy thing. As anon said up there:
> 'If you're a pirate at least understand what it is you're leeching off of.'
>Depending on kindness from Internet strangers to pay your bills is silly.
the kindness of strangers is basically what every job is until you get to know people. artists work, patrons pay for the work, they're not strangers giving charity? they're paying clients with a monthly subscription.
that's what a patronage system is.
i think the issue stems from a bunch of like decade old at this point excellent to awesome artists doing this in japan, (paid blocked art, doujins, then us all getting them, some of the artists here even partook in taking their art) and then flipping a shit when people do it here.
Commissioned work not being shared? Fine.
The patreon system over all could have a lot of uses but what it mostly seems to be for is barring people from seeing things, and artists that were already free.
while porn is art (like 90% fan art) its not too far a stretch to see why their is a firmly against party, and a firmly for party. It'd be hard to sway someone to the opposite side of the line and theres no use for it.
And no this thread isn't an example of an interest in it. This thread is an example of like 3 popular patreon artists,or artists who were free and went the patreon route.
You aren't necessarily disagreeing, you just feel like people are taking your jobs.
Before telling people to understand what their 'leeching' from, go look up facts about pirating, not everyone who downloaded illegally is even interested in buying/ owning it in the first place.
I've got more gay porn from studios then i could watch. I'd maybe have purchased 2 of the videos.
>This, and the excuse that Patreon is open, is victim blaming
Holy shit. The anons sperging out "Do you know where you are? are right this time.
This board's demographics are probably no different than DA or Tumblr at this point, but it's still a porn board, not a hugbox or fujoshi circlejerk.
Polite sage because no more patreon art to contribute :^)
there's been 6 actual images since the start of this argument. i'm all for a good argument, but c'mon guys, take it somewhere else. literally nobody here gives a fuck; we're here for porn, not to read your essays. please either forget about it or take it somewhere else, so we can get back to content.
>inb4 "then post content, faggot"
don't have anything relevant, or else i would.
There is value in exclusivity, though. Who is going to pay for your shit if you display it for free to begin with?
> not everyone who downloaded illegally is even interested in buying/ owning it in the first place
I understand downloading if you want a preview before buying, but Patreon usually displays a part of the art in the first place anyway. If you decide it's not for you, just don't subscribe or unsubscribe.
I agree. The board's demographic are probably similar to DA/Tumblr. However, the underagers are probably the ones who can't afford to pay for porn. It's a luxury. Content yourself with the free stuff instead of ablooblooing over the artists who want to make some side money out of their acquired skills. Oh, the free stuff isn't good enough for you? I guess you get what you paid for. :^) Stop asking people to spoonfeed you.
On the other hand, I wouldn't really mind is people banded together to share a patreon reward. I just don't want exclusive stuff to circulate freely on the Web, thus rendering the 'exclusive' contract void. It's shitty thing to do to your customer base.
I'm fucking screaming
Please tell me someone have this already and is willing to share
My face during this whole thread, while eating that dank-ass white cheddar bruh.
Censored and watermarked but not cropped.
Stolen? Seeing as she sends out the images in an email package, once they're in somebody's email I'd suspect they're free to do what they want with them. They paid for them, therefore they can post them. Not like has them copyrighted, because none of these pictures are her copyrighted property.
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't there something inherently illegal about peddling copyrighted material that doesn't belong to you, IE; video game characters or other trademarks? I'm not sure.
Anyone got all the uncensored works on Mazjojo patreon? Patreon caused all his works censored in pixiv. It is pity to hide them and it is too capitolised.
>every single board of 4chan takes piracy pretty naturally from /tg/ to /vg/ and /a/
>piracy thread on /y/ is endless bitching
Why am I not surprised? Also sakimichan is shit at her legs and groin anatomy, weren't for the fact that her style is pretty unique and her coloring is great I wouldn't give a fuck about her massive jewery.
>sakimichan is shit at her legs and groin anatomy
it looks pretty good in the one you posted, is that a rarity or am i missing something?
>piracy thread on /y/ is endless bitching
it's probably cause there's a lot more artists than there are developers, and the artists probably come here more often than a game developer might. too bad it's not more obvious that we want their shitty art, not their shitty opinions.
As an artist my self (not like it matters) I learned that you can not really fight getting your art re-posted. Because of this I learned to not fucking care if my art is getting re-posted places. If I don't want people to see it or have it posted some one... I wont share it. That easy. Watermark or stuff or some shit so people know its you. And if they like your stuff they will be ble to find you and support you.
Honestly, if people re-post my work I see it as people freely showing my work around and getting more people to see it.
*shrugs* People who are stingy with their work bother me. But thats non of my business.
That's kind of my thing with patreon. I mean, sure people should get credit for their talent (or lack thereof, sometimes) but...I don't know. Call me old-fashioned or cliche, but art should be shared and given freely, regardless of whether it's a picaso, a commissioned piece from a wealthy patron, or porn. People can bitch and disagree if they want, but there's a small part of even the horniest people on here that enjoy yaoi for the artistic value. Art is art, regardless of its form.
I'm with you, though, if my art was posted here I'd be surprised, but as you said, it's exposure. There are some talented artists that have their works posted here.
Ok so artists don't need to eat, got it. Most of them get drastically underpaid and taken advantage of anyway, but seven dollars a month? Way too steep!
Seriously you'd never fucking say this for ANY other profession. Why do you need to pay to get into museums, and why do museums pay artists for their art? Art (really THE arts) takes time, effort, blood sweat and tears and it is consistently, systematically undervalued in society despite being an integral part of human culture. And your attitude helps that along.
You're not 'old fashioned', you're just brainless, greedy and uninformed.
Those talented artists never see a fucking dime from art that gets posted on /y/.
No I agree, artist are very much underpaid. And it sucks.
But if its posted on 4-chan or tumblr, the OP isn't getting paid to post it and the artist isn't loosing money as long as the poster credited the artist.
all ways credit the artist. Because you never know who is looking at their art and really wanting to commision them but cant because they have no idea who the artist is. THAT really is what hurts the artist.
>"If anyone tries to make money for any reason TEH JOOOOOOOS!! TEH JOOOOOOOOOOOS!!"
It's hilarious how many poor failures at life are in this website, always raging at people who make money and are successful at life.
>"I'd rather have to pay an artist a hefty sum to get *one* picture out of them than pay $1 to have access to their whole library of done things."
If the entire library is rubbish, I rather have pay the artist hefty some for something worth it.
Library full of rubbish usually what patreon artists offer. Unfinished sketches & rejected drawings while those that they truly value being published/sold.
>I love these patreon threads where people simultaneously shit on artists and yet *desperately* want to see their work.
Who said we want to see their work, did you even look at the half-assed arts here. I'm here just to shit on patreon coz most artists with patreon are not even decent.
Take advantage how? People are not forced to press that pledge button. This isn't like that guy who made some $13 medicine $720 forcing people who want to stay alive to buy it. This is art and porn. Entirely optional. If you bought it, adult that you are, in full use of your mental capacity, you are aware of what you are doing.
The problem is what the artist make may not what I want. I rather pay for something I truly like than a mix bad to misc.
Does the freedom of artist has anything to do with viewer? You do realized if the artist continue to make stuff that the view don't like out of "freedom" that artist won't be having anymore viewers much longer
Take advantage as in giving out shit to pledges like draft and shitty rejected artwork. The arts that really matter are available for sell. Also I did mention rabid fans and these people are their target.
If you think hiking up price is the only way of "take advantage" you probably don't have full use of your mental capacity.
Basic legal fact: when you enter an agreement you accept the terms. Artists tell you what they post. If they say they post wips and people pay, then people want those. You can decry it, call it shitty, but you are not the patron. You are not even paying so have nothing to lose if other people who like it get it.
All you do is question the taste of others /and/ assume they must be "rabid" for paying for something, if only to justify why you don't want to pay artists. Which is what it comes to at the end of the day.
Since you brought up "taking advantage" most patreon artist lure initial pledges with artwork different than what they actually giving out in their pack. Sure if the pledges end up don't like it they can just stop pledging but "Cool. It wasn't meant for you then but we still take your first payment".
what about "shitty artwork" does that count as "artwork" eventhough by looking at that artist portfolio we know very well that said art post for pledges are shitty. Since they get the money one way or another quality doesn't matter.
That's why I only buy stuff that artist sells rather than pledging for them and like I said arts that truly matter for the artist is up for sale anyway (including to pledges). At least I now exactly what I get.
Most? Okay. List which ones are "most." Else this is quite a broad generalization. Also remember: your pledge is charged at the end of the month. If you pledge and see the art, you pay for that. Come next month: has the art changed? Stop the pledge: you won't be charged till the end of the month so, great, you got to see some art you didn't want which gave you a head start to remove your pledge.
Sounds like a win/win for you, actually. You paid a month of art you didn't want and then when the unwanted stuff came out, you got to see art for free /and/ get to quit out without paying for it.
>Most? Okay. List which ones are "most."
Seriously dude did you even pledge before? Also did you take a look at the art behind paywall posted above?
The post for pledges arrives after pledges for the month is final, no taking back for first payment, if you do you won;t be consider pledging.
I got a feeling you're the one of the "most".
Most commercial artists do draw what people want to see. Some of you call that 'pandering' and shit on the artist for it.
Patreon does offer more freedom than commissions though. Plus it pays better. I guess Patreon is more of a 'sponsoring' system, where the clients support the artist's growth for more similar work. Commissions are, well, commissioning the artist for specific works. The effort I put in for a commission is not really worth it seeing as my prices are basically minimum wage (sometimes less if I take more time on the piece). I love this community, but it's hard to make drawing worthwhile when your audience expects a 5 hour portrait to cost $20. At least with Patreon, it's possible to offer multiple pieces at a relatively cheap cost without it cutting into your profit margin.
As a consumer, I understand the unwillingness to pay up. There's the danger of not receiving what you bought among other things. But as a seller, I equally am aware of how weary some artists have become. My first commission ended up with me making the newbie mistake of not collecting a deposit and the commissioner running off without paying a dime. Leaking patreon art is as assholish as purposely failing to deliver what was advertised. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, etc, etc. It would be nice to reach a middle ground. Do you guys think that Patreon is salvageable if there were more rules protecting the patrons, or is paying for art just a no-no because 'art should be shared and given freely'?
> sorry for long post
> TLDR; Both sides have cause to be weary of either Patreon or commissions, so what would be the middle ground?
That's why I posted that one, look at this one here the crotch is literally a clusterfuck. That's surely from her not having much experience with drawing lewds.
>too bad it's not more obvious that we want their shitty art, not their shitty opinions.
Ha I was sure I would only get bitching, I got a good surprise for once.
Hey I'm a secular jew as well and I do have a pretty good nose for smelling money opportunities. And when I call sakimi a fucking jew is for the fact that when you pay her patreon you don't even get her previous works, you have to pay an ADDITIONAL amount for every "tier".
>>every single board of 4chan takes piracy pretty naturally from /tg/ to /vg/ and /a/
I don't know about /tg/, but /a/ is mostly pro-piracy since nobody wants to give chrunchyroll money since apparently they have "shitty subs" (aside from typesetting it doesn't look much more different than fansubs to be, at least it's better than fucking commie)
On the other hand I know that regular /v/ is filled with redditors who sperg out because "MUH ECONOMY!" despite millions of copies selling from popular AAA games, and 1 purchase has never really made a difference in a medium as big as vidya.
But to me this whole thing seems like an advanced form of sperging out. You are paying for the art to be made. You get the art. Why do you need to keep it private? More art for people to look at so more intensive for people to give you money to make more and better art.
Public fundraising is one of the most jewish things to come out of the internet's smelly asshole in the last few years
Every single artist has a fuckery, it's like paying for a game before playing it. There's no way if you will know if you are getting a 9/10 game or a shitty cash-grab.
Look at ackamine, he/she (I don't give a fuck about artist's sex actually) draws a pretty decent niche porn, wow elves, but that goddamn belf/troll comic was so mediocre I'd be insulted if I were paying for that on patreon.
Here's another fuck up by sakimi.
Hello, can anyone post the uncensored version if ichan01 quicksilver?
>Most commercial artists do draw what people want to see. Some of you call that 'pandering' and shit on the artist for it.
Yes, because that why they get paid and become commercial artist. Thank you for proving my point.
Artists put up their portfolios so people can judge their price and their art worth. If people not willing to pay your price or you have to lower your price than it's the artist problem really.
>possible to offer multiple pieces at a relatively cheap cost without it cutting into your profit margin
That's explain the suck stuff that you get when pledging.
People will pay if they think it worth their money. Do you seriously think the people here whose asking for art will suddenly pay for it if nobody share? If they really want it and it worth their money, they won't asking for it in the first place or they're asking to see if it really worth to spend their money like somesort ot sneak peek or preview.
Patreon only protect the patron not pleges, you can basically dump anything and call it a tier. The pleges only find out after get charge.
lol the way that dick is rendered it looks like it belongs in a different picture. Also, I've noticed more that all the edges that don't have a highlight on them have no shading for depth, it makes the layers look super obvious. Honestly looks like 90% of the effort went into the head/neck area
I meant patron as in the people paying for the art. What could be done to protect the clients, in your opinion?
>If people not willing to pay your price or you have to lower your price than it's the artist problem really.
The problem is that most people have unrealistic expectations of the price they should be paying. And when the artists raise the price in order to have a decent wage, they get called greedy.
>That's explain the suck stuff that you get when pledging.
How so? For example, one commission costs like $50. An artist does 3-4 in a month. That's like $150-$200 for the artist, but only 3-4 people get the image and they paid $50 for it. With Patreon, the images are shared between 20-25 people. The artist is then able to cut down the price to $7-$8 per person. If more people pledge, then the artist is able to increase their profit margin, but it's not like the quality decreases.
>Do you seriously think the people here whose asking for art will suddenly pay for it if nobody share?
That's what the previews and portfolios are for. Also reputation. But do you think that the people who are currently paying for it will still pay for it if they know they can easily get it for free?
>Honestly looks like 90% of the effort went into the head/neck area
It's because that's what she's "good" with. You can clearly see a relatively good progression on her anatomy tho. She still hasn't done a full fledged penetration pic, so I'm wondering how those two she just did went out.
I'm trying to keep things relevant and only posting patreon stuff.
>And when the artists raise the price in order to have a decent wage, they get called greedy.
If the price doesn't reflect the art/skill. Like any other job, you get paid for what you can do, artist always think they are exempt from this.
Sure one person pay $7-$8 for something that they may or may not like. $50 commission takes 3-4 months? that can either be undercharge or that artist just really slow/sucks doing it.
>do you think that the people who are currently paying for it will still pay for it if they know they can easily get it for free?
Yes because nothing beats having your very own copy. Also release a physical work that people can appreciate, hold, hang on wall and stare at 24/7 rather than something people look once on their screen and stash somewhere in their hard drive.
> That's true, my bad. I really had a poor argument there. I used healthcare and food as if they were analogous to what art is: ultimately, a luxury, so it's even cheaper and more embarrassing when people whine about artists being greedy because they can't have free access to the luxury goods/services that the artists offer.
An encore for the anon that helps the thread not die.
Anybody has the uncensored version of this? Thanks
>Healthcare and food are not luxury. Do you not eat? Do you not go to clinic/hospital when you get sick?
>There's no coming back from being full retard.
What are you doing here if not to get your share free porno cartoon. Condemn other from doing exactly what you're doing. classy.
Share art from all around the internet no one bats an eye, share art from patreon morality police pops up.
You're misreading. I said "It was wrong to compare art to medicine/food, because those are basic needs, whereas art is a luxury, which makes it petty to ask for it for free."
And no, I'm not here to get "my share free porno cartoon". I'm here exclusively for this post, because my income took a hit from patreon piracy. And, if anything, because this is where people decided to shit on our career and the effort that artists put into their work, while simultaneously asking to see their products.
Those freaks are transforming the rare FREE yaoi porn sites we have into shitty pay sites by posting their 'work' censored with a link to their account on Patreon. They disrespect these sites, their fans, and also their characters they are whoring I don't call 'art' but atrocious censoring to see a character whose butt is 'hidden' by a tiny black piece of cloth you have to pay to see removed.
It's called ransom money, it's often posted on sites that have NOTHING to do with Patreon too, and I'm FUCKING GLAD to see those greedy 'artists' losing their most precious fans.
You mean that he used to cure you for free, but then one day he stopped in the middle to tell you that if you want your filling, you have to pay or you'll stay with your tooth wide open?
What a jerk.
this needs a dramatic reading i haven't laughed this hard in a while
LOL random money
listen, anyone who wants the stuff you work on for hours for free was never is never and would never be a 'precious fan', no more than a shoplifter is a loyal customer of a store
by your simile, grocery stores are holding delicious random because they put a price tag on it
also, while we're at it
Ransom is the practice of holding a prisoner or item to extort money or property to secure their release.
is a criminal offense of obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through *coercion.*
is forcing you to buy these things. don't want them? don't see them, that's final. move along.
however, it's not ransom or extortion either if the thing didn't belong to you in the first place, and in fact the pictures would not have existed if the artist hadn't made them.
Ah, we're going down the dentist metaphor, even if that one was inadequate? Okay.
He was doing it pro-bono for a while. But then one day he said "I still do some of my services for free, but I need to make a living - think you can pay me? Else, you will have to to another dentist."
Here, the patient replies:
"Why should I pay for your SHITTY SERVICES."
(Really, look up how many times 'shitty' was used up there to describe the art in Patreon.)
The dentist thus shrugs. "Alright, I see you don't want my services. Door's over there."
"You should do your job FOR THE LOVE OF YOUR CRAFT."
"I need to make a living."
"Well if you wanted to make a living maybe you should've considered a DIFFERENT career choice. Now how about them SHITTY SERVICES?!"
But again, this doesn't apply because, in any case, access to medicine should be a basic human right. Access to porn is, on the other hand, a luxury.
Pay for your fap fuel if you like what's behind our Patreons, or go elsewhere. It's fine, you still have plenty of options.
Whatever you say. People are hating the way those guys are trying to use the attachment of theirs fans to extort money from them, and the mentioned fans are running away, disgusted. One day they discovered that their favorite artist is the kind who would make one of these pay per view porn sites full of censored pop ups. You et they are running. How I understand that they are running. And the best yet to say is that it's an occasion for many other artists both talented and generous with their art to get recognized.
I couldn't be more thrilled.
all my thanks won't be enough
I see no disrespect here. It's just artists trying to make profit from their works. Years ago they had no such means if not individual comissions, for example.
> anyone who wants the stuff you work on for hours for free was never is never and would never be a 'precious fan'
You have a point. I believe real "fans" will support the artist (also money-wise).
I completely agree. Been around for a long time seeing many artists I like becoming a "commercial" success and losing their ways was just too painful... money is really a bitch when it comes to art.
>If the price doesn't reflect the art/skill.
Even if a decent artist starts off by charging minimum wage (which other jobs also start off at), there's still people complaining about the prices. If you don't think it's worth your money, don't buy it instead of hassling the artist to lower their prices. The problem is that a lot of new artists cave to met the pushier fans' demands, and it runs them dry. Yes, artists should be paid by what they can do, but the current starting point for prices is way too low (I see people charging $4 for a 1 hour drawing; that's such a shitty standard).
>$50 commission takes 3-4 months?
No, a $50 commission takes a week or so. So you can draw 3-4 of them per month. That's considering that the artist is only using art has a part-time job, which is likely since art is not nearly enough to live on most of the time.
> Also release a physical work that people can appreciate
Yeah, that's what I do personally (I sell prints). I'm pretty sure they're not going to hang gay porn on their walls, but I understand the sentiment of wanting something tangible. The problem is more when it comes to intangible things, such as digital copies of images. The copy that the person obtains legally from the artist, and the one they found for free off the net: what's the difference? I don't mind posting my prints online and have it freely distributed, but Patreon images are another issue because they're exclusive items that are also exclusively digital. It's the same way I wouldn't be okay with people printing high resolution images of my prints and handing them to everyone. It competes directly with my business.
I guess Patreon could become a 'mail a print to you' system, but then the problem of shipping fees would come into play.
I get it if you're 16 and have never worked a day in your life, so you don't understand that sometimes people are paid for the time they spend working on things. But in that case, you should be at the roller rink. This is a grown-up board (⌒.-)
That was the last pic of a set, will try to post the whole thing.
See guys, I TOLD you she was getting better, it was literally lack of practice, and now her jewery makes me feel even worse. Why are so many good artists assholes?
Now there's only the dark link solo missing.
Well I could just kiss you. Do you have the second version? And her anatomy really did made a huge jump in quality.
Also , another set dump.
Oh yeah I forgot to say, this set is ended there, maybe I'l post some more if I get to resize the pics to fit into 4chan.
The one with the hands holding him? There's also one where his shirt is on but his penis is out.
Also sharing her Cloud x Zack pic because HNNNNNNNNNNNNGH FUCKING HOT LOOK AT DAT ASS!
Ummmm does anyone have the full uncensored picture of this?
don't suppose anyone has this one?
He/she's referring to this one!
We want this one!
Please! (in a dramatic fashion)
Please! We implore you! Give us Zoro's fourth sword! (the captcha for this one was bananas, by the way, so if that's not a hint enough, I don't know what is)
The Zoro one will be released at the end of this month and sure, I'll be coming back with the new pack, also I forgot the Special One (Chris Redfield)
There is a new artist in patreon, and what can be seen, is really good! (At least for me)
if she were more careful with her general anatomy, perspective, and shading, her nudes wouldn't look so wonky. i mean, if she's drawing these in a half hour, then ok the quality makes sense to me
any1 got that emission magician on the right? i would be eternally grateful.
Samikichan here http://rule34.paheal.net/post/list/sakimichan/1
Justsyl Nathen?? anyone
Hydaria someone?? gray, snow villiers ken masters??
>too many attempts
Also does anyone have anything by Ackamine?
What's with the patreon hubaloo on this forum site? There's nothing on here for patreon artists. This is a place to upload art anonymously.
I suggest respecting an artists decision to post their art online incognito. It makes sense too given this is a yaoi porn board. Some artists may not want yaoi porn drawing professional on their resume or be known for drawing such things in general to avoid controversy.
This is the place to dump your yaoi pairing shame drawings and share them/discuss about them with other people who have similar feelings about their own drawings.
If an artist wants to make money by a pay per view deal and actually can get people to do it, then go for it. Don't bring other people down for your decision if you choose to go that route. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work, don't blame other artists doing drawings for free. Keep in mind not all artists are in it for the money, but do it as a hobby.
That's all I'll interject into the discussion.
Did someone squeeze wasabi into this anon ass.
>Some artists may not want yaoi porn drawing professional on their resume
They put their name on their art... (also i'm pretty sure it's their porn aliases).
Once again the peace of this thread sour by patreon fanatic. They are worst than vegetarian.
>pretending this thread isn't almost entirely anons willing to say anything to convince themselves that they should receive all art for free
i'm not an illustrator, but i know a bunch of them. it's not uncommon for people to use pseudonyms for porn art and then after a certain level of success, have a professional online portfolio under your real name. being a professional illustrator means pretty much being habitually freelancing/at the whim of your contacts... so you don't put weeaboo gay dicks under your real name b/c a client might not hire you. this is basic business 101.
i just went to Patreon for the first time b/c everyone made it sound like a porn site. it's just a crowdfunding site like kickstarter? the homepage has just as much music and comics and nonporn art as it does anything else. pretty much everyone in this thread is delusional as fuck, and i've yet to see an intelligent argument why anyone deserves porn for free that someone else spent their time working on. there's literally thousands and thousands of free drawn porn images out there. if you don't want to pay, don't pay, and access the gazillions of yaoi elsewhere?
My guess is the audience is pretty big (and lucrative if you are selling it). I mean, gay men obviously like it, there's many women who like it, and there's even some straight men who like it, for some reason I can't quite decipher.
Maybe this is too much, but em... well... can you, this one?
I've only found a few pictures of his patreon, but still many even without being released. and I know that it's furry...but I love his art! But I don't have money u.u
Any chance anyone has Zamius' September rewards?
I NEED THIS CGS